‘Stormy’ EU Council Meeting Feb 2020

JacquesHughes

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Going on at present, and almost ignored, at the Multi-annual Financial Framework, EU countries : the ‘frugal four’ v ‘the friends of cohesion’ advocates v the ‘federal destiny’ visionaries v ‘look after my farmers, and other vested interests’ have been having an unseemly wrangle at the EU Council over who pays and what for, after Britain leaves.

But at stake, at this, and future meetings with the same agenda, is the very future of the EU. What is it for? Where is it going? What can it afford? How does it decide? Who loses out? Who pays?
In David Cameron’s time the EU Commission suffered the first ever cutback of it’s budget. Well some countries do not want that to be the last ( it’s a seven year budget). Germany wants to finance an enormous modernisation of it’s rail infrastructure, and it’s not looking to the EU to espouse or deliver this ‘seize the future’ cause.

It was notable , during the ( brief and inadequate) U.K. ‘debate’ on the Brexit referendum in 2016, not a single advocate of ‘remain’ argued to stay so that the UK could share in:

- burden sharing of the migrants arriving on the southern States’ coasts
- a european superstate to ‘confront Russia’
- the opportunity to implement ‘sanctions’ on EU democratic states in the east who slip from ( supposed ) uniform standards of ‘rule of law’ ( no sanctions on Spain, of course)

Those sensible people had almost no argument to make in support of EU membership, other than; participation in the Single Market. To those arguing to an electorate, person by person, to choose to ‘remain’ , the rest of the EU paraphernalia was a BURDEN.
 
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recedite

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The "Brexit gap" caused by the loss of the UK's contribution is €75 billion over the 2021-2027 period, but French President Emmanuel Macron insisted this must not mean the EU should trim its ambitions by cutting spending.
So where does Little Napoleon think the money is going to come from then?
I suspect he will be looking for larger net contributions from countries such as Ireland.
 

Garza

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The EU wants to be a governemnt.

And a government needs lots of money.

I cant help chuckling. Leo is outraged. Welcome to our world of paying alot in and getting very little out.
 

blinding

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The EU wants to be a governemnt.

And a government needs lots of money.

I cant help chuckling. Leo is outraged. Welcome to our world of paying alot in and getting very little out.
Does it occur to Leo that if he did not pay so much in then he would not have to get so much back ? ?

Tis no wonder the Irish People have Sacked Him.
 

brughahaha

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Going on at present, and almost ignored, at the Multi-annual Financial Framework, EU countries : the ‘frugal four’ v ‘the friends of cohesion’ advocates v the ‘federal destiny’ visionaries v ‘look after my farmers, and other vested interests’ have been having an unseemly wrangle at the EU Council over who pays and what for, after Britain leaves.

But at stake, at this, and future meetings with the same agenda, is the very future of the EU. What is it for? Where is it going? What can it afford? How does it decide? Who loses out? Who pays?
Isnt the very issue at the heart of the EU , that it has never set a final destination or end point for the project.

We just had an election and it wasnt even discussed , or published in manifestos except for the usual open cheque of unrestricted EU fealty.
Yes , economic integration (or more succinctly , a closed European economy ) has benefitted us (but not by as much as some would have us believe ) but there is more to a society than just economics .

The politicians have shyed away from having an open and honest discussion about the EU end game , and now it appears too late as the mistrust has grown .

As in all centralised powers a cosy elite has developed - with all that it usually entails restricted access except for the wealthy and connected , deafness to legitimate concerns and the refuting of all criticism good or bad with a silo mentality.

And now the bill is arriving .........as it always does ..... its why ultimately, pre Brexit 1999 to 2008 will be seen as the high water mark of the EU
 

JacquesHughes

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The politicians have shyed away from having an open and honest discussion about the EU end game , and now it appears too late as the mistrust has grown .

As in all centralised powers a cosy elite has developed - with all that it usually entails restricted access except for the wealthy and connected , deafness to legitimate concerns and the refuting of all criticism good or bad with a silo mentality.
In the eyes of the U.K. the only relevant function of the EU Commission is the administration of a trading block of 440 million relatively affluent ( on a world scale) consumers. They are puzzled ( and critical) that it costs so much to do, and they are determined to pay as little as possible themselves- ideally, enjoying ‘free trade’.

They’re not entirely wrong.

Yes, Ireland got some direct agricultural payments and some regional development funds, ( thanks for the sub) but the chief benefit of the EU has been stable, transparent , reciprocal trading rules with our largest ( and nearest) trading partners- rules which may not be capriciously replaced with a tariff by a Kanzler Herr Von Trump, when perceived as a winning negotiating pressure.

As the U.K. considers negotiating new trade rules with the EU or the USA, the EU has a considerable attraction- THE EU KEEPS ITS WORD!
 

Splodge

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Are we not paying 100s of millions more into the EU budget than we take out of it as it is?

Why not just stop giving them our money

- and in return they don't have to give us any of theirs?

The whole EUB program is a dysfunctional mess at this stage!:rolleyes:
Sweet suffering Jesus.
 

General Urko

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Why aren't all EU political business meetings done through webinar?
I guarantee that's the last thing we will see!
 

owedtojoy

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In the eyes of the U.K. the only relevant function of the EU Commission is the administration of a trading block of 440 million relatively affluent ( on a world scale) consumers. They are puzzled ( and critical) that it costs so much to do, and they are determined to pay as little as possible themselves- ideally, enjoying ‘free trade’.

They’re not entirely wrong.

Yes, Ireland got some direct agricultural payments and some regional development funds, ( thanks for the sub) but the chief benefit of the EU has been stable, transparent , reciprocal trading rules with our largest ( and nearest) trading partners- rules which may not be capriciously replaced with a tariff by a Kanzler Herr Von Trump, when perceived as a winning negotiating pressure.

As the U.K. considers negotiating new trade rules with the EU or the USA, the EU has a considerable attraction- THE EU KEEPS ITS WORD!
... AND THE BRITISH (should I say the ENGLISH) DO NOT.

Simon Coveney on TV tonight expressing concern on the "messages from Downing Street" - it looks distinctly like the British are backsliding on the Border in the Irish Sea commitment, and the Political Declaration commitments to a level playing pitch for standards.
 

owedtojoy

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According to the Europe Elects side, if referendums were held in each EU country, there is no country that would not vote to Remain by less than 70%.

 

Ireniall

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The EU wants to be a governemnt.

And a government needs lots of money.

I cant help chuckling. Leo is outraged. Welcome to our world of paying alot in and getting very little out.
You forget your own history. The fact that north east Ireland was part of the UK allowed them to have the successful economy which in turn meant that they were able to be net contributors(very briefly). The south is now very much in that position in the present day with regard to the EU. Only miserable Brexiteers view being net contributors as some sort of failure. Everything about Brexit and Brexiteers is small including their willies..
 
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Lumpy Talbot

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No
Here's a radical idea. Why not simply announce that a budget set at more than 1% of GDP or GNP or whatever the current arrangement is not appropriate at this time and that the EU considers that it should scale back its policy commitments beyond trade matters and EU fiscal policy for the time being and to allow a debate on the future policy direction of the EU to take place.

The EU has been too rushed a project, propelled toward Federalism which it is possible that not all that many are convinced is a good idea. I'd cap contributions to 1% of GDP/GNP and release a statement that the debate about a bigger budget should be held over to allow member states to invest what they might otherwise have paid to Brussels into growth activities in member states.

It would take the steam out of things and promote a more sensible and pragmatic approach.
 

recedite

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Simon Coveney on TV tonight expressing concern on the "messages from Downing Street" - it looks distinctly like the British are backsliding on the Border in the Irish Sea commitment, and the Political Declaration commitments to a level playing pitch for standards.
I never heard of either of these phrases being used by the Brits themselves though.
The likes of Coveney and Varadkar have made various claims about how they handled Brexit successfully, despite them not being directly involved in the negotiations.
 

recedite

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Are we not paying 100s of millions more into the EU budget than we take out of it as it is?
Yes.
In 2017, total revenue accruing to the European Union (EU) was €139 billion with total expenditure amounting to €137bn. Ireland’s contribution to the EU budget amounted to just over €2bn in 2017, and it received €1.8bn from the EU in the same year. The largest net contributor to the EU budget in 2017 was Germany: contributing €13bn more to the EU budget than it received in EU funds. The German net contribution was followed by the UK (€7.4bn); France (€4.4bn); Italy (€4bn) and the Netherlands (€3bn). Poland was the largest net recipient of EU finds, receiving €8bn more than it contributed to the EU budget in 2017. However, when we consider these exchanges in per capita terms, the Netherlands, Sweden and Germany were the highest contributors: paying €200, €160 and €150 per capita respectively into the EU budget. The Irish net contribution amounted to €50 per capita in 2017. Moreover, Luxembourg, Lithuania, Estonia and Hungary were the largest net recipients on a per capita basis, receiving €2,500, €430, €350 and €315 per capita respectively.
The Irish net contribution has been rising steadily, so it would be more now than it was in 2017.
 

Catahualpa

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Yes. The Irish net contribution has been rising steadily, so it would be more now than it was in 2017.
Excellent find there!(y)

A lot to digest but its clear we are putting in more than we are getting out and that what we receive mostly goes to the Farmers

In total, Ireland received just over €1.8bn in EU funding. The largest share of EU expenditure was on ‘Sustainable growth: natural resources’ (€1.5bn): with €1bn going towards the support of Irish agriculture; €255 million towards rural development and €20 million towards supporting Irish fisheries.

AS you can see our Fishing Industry has been left to drift onto the Rocks!

The Farmer Community are by far and away the biggest beneficiaries of what we get from Brussells.

We are contributing more to the tune of hundreds of millions more than we are getting back!

Germany is the largest net contributor to the EU, contributing €13bn more to the EU than it received in funding from Brussels. Germany was followed by the UK (€7bn); France (€4bn); Italy (€4bn); and the Netherlands (€3bn) as the highest paying net contributors to the EU. Ireland is also a net contributor: contributing €230 million more than it received in 2017.

 

recedite

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Regarding the "€20 million towards supporting Irish fisheries," I presume that is going in some way towards quotas ie paying fishermen not to fish.
However if our waters were not being pillaged by trawlers from faraway EU nations, the Irish fishermen could fish as much as they wanted, without adversely affecting fish stocks, and the exports would be worth far more than that "support" money.
 


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