Story of Jesus Fabricated Claims US scholar Joseph Atwill

R

Ramps

Isn't Jesus like St Patrick ie an amalgamation of a few people, but that a person by that name was executed for a relatively innocuous offence of potentially disrupting public order.
Not really. There is no real evidence of that.

I thought there was plenty of evidence of that, even if it was hearsay. But that, obviously, there was zero evidence of divinity. I also assumed that if one bothered to write the 4 gospels versions of arrival into Jerusalem to crucifixion that as a strict timeline, they were irreconcilable.
John's Jesus is crucified on a different day, and he has the incident of the Temple at the start of Jesus' ministry; is that what you're referring to?
 


Nebuchadnezzar

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This should be a very interesting thread.
Many of us were always suspicious Jesus sounded a bit too good to be true.
Maybe the truth about the gospels is finally about to be revealed.
You might like to make a donation to Mr Atwill -

https://mobile.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_express-checkout-mobile&useraction=commit&token=EC-4JL80662MD920722H#m

or you could purchase a telephone consultation with him here...

http://caesarsmessiah.com/Purchase/consult.html
 

Congalltee

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nope - there really was a Saint Patrick

But is possible that one of his converts took his name and continued his work

No one knows for sure though

But it is accepted that he did exist
That's what I mean. It's a bit of fact based on a real person, with a few tales of others added and wrapped in mythology. Repeated over time. Written down. Assumes a bit of gravitas. Adopted as the "truth ".

Paddy/Jesus/Mary (aged 12-14) and Joesph (90 if he was a day).

It's all mad Ted.
 
R

Ramps

Many of us were always suspicious Jesus sounded a bit too good to be true.
Not at all. You only have to look at the embarrassment that some of the details of Jesus' life caused for the gospel writers.
His baptism by John and his being from Nazareth being the best examples.

Anyone inventing a story wouldn't have included those details.
 

Sotired

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I don't know much about the chap if I am being honest, though it seems to be the consensus around here that he is a bit dodgy.
That's not a bit fair at all.

Seemed like a nice peace-loving, friendly, hippyish sort of guy to me.

Some people are never happy.

That's what jesus said.
 

jmcc

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Avoid what again? Paul, writing about 15 years before the war, already spoke of the crucified Jesus.
Was he writing before the war?

Of course; but why would they crucify the "hero" whose attitude they hoped would be emulated by the masses? That just doesn't make sense.
The underdog who triumphs. It is a common enough theme. However he wasn't, or so the narrative goes, killed by the Romans but rather by the Jewish Sanhedrin. Thus you have the priests of the Temple split from the people and what was a rather coherent and highly structured religion fractured.
 

jmcc

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Not at all. You only have to look at the embarrassment that some of the details of Jesus' life caused for the gospel writers.
His baptism by John and his being from Nazareth being the best examples.
He wasn't necessarily from Nazareth. He may have been Jesus the Nazorean - something very different and far more incendiary.
 

magnum44

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Was Jesus the son of a Roman standard bearer?

Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera 22 BC – AD 40 was a Roman soldier whose legion servied in Palestine whose tombstone was found in Bingerbrück, Germany in 1859.
Pantera is also the name given by Celsus, a Greek philosopher of the 2nd century, who alleged a Roman soldier raped Mary and was the real father of Jesus.

Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Tib(erius) Iul(ius) Abdes Pantera
Sidonia ann(orum) LXII
stipen(diorum) XXXX miles exs(ignifer?)
coh(orte) I sagittariorum
h(ic) s(itus) e(st)

Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera
from Sidon, aged 62 years
served 40 years, former standard bearer(?)
of the first cohort of archers
lies here

The standard bearer in a Roman cohort typically wore a animal skin on his head which could explain the name Pantera which means Panther.



The name Pantera is Greek, although it appears in Latin in the inscription. It was perhaps his last name, and means panther.[2] The names Tiberius Iulius are acquired names and were probably given to him as a former slave when in recognition of serving in the Roman army he obtained Roman citizenship.[2] The name Abdes means "servant of God" and suggests that Pantera had a semitic or even Jewish background.[2] Pantera was from Sidonia, which is identified with Sidon in Phoenicia, and joined the Cohors I Sagittariorum (first cohort of archers).[2]
Pantera is not an unusual name, and its use goes back at least to the 2nd century.[1] Prior to the end of the 19th century, at various times in history scholars had hypothesized that the name Pantera was an uncommon or even a fabricated name, but in 1891 French archeologist C. S. Clermont-Ganneau showed that it was a name that was in use in Iudaea by other people and Adolf Deissmann later showed with certainty that it was a common name at the time, and that it was specially common among Roman soldiers.[2][6][8]
At that time Roman army enlistments were for 25 years and Pantera served 40 years in the army until his death at 62.[2] The reign of emperor Tiberius was between 14 and 37 and the Cohors I Sagittariorum was stationed in Judaea and then in Bingen. Pantera was probably the standard bearer (signifer) of his cohort.
 
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owedtojoy

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This article caught my attention in today's Belfast Telegraph online. US scholar Joseph Atwill claims that the story of Jesus was created to keep the poor in their place. His studies have lead him to conclude that the whole thing was made up after studying 'The War on the Jews' the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea. In that book he noticed that there were clear parallels and sequences with the New Testament for it to be merely coincidental.




I have proof story of Jesus Christ was fabricated to pacify and enslave the poor, claims US scholar Joseph Atwill - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


Should make for an interesting discussion.
Sounds hokey to me.

Titus obviously campaigned to capture population centres of revolt like cities.

Jesus as a travelling prophet visited the same places.

Therefore Romans wrote all the New Testament?? Aw, go on.

Worth a look, I suppose. But I am going to read this which promises to be far more interesting - it was controversial because it was written by a US Muslim scholar - something Fox News could not get its head around.

Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth: Amazon.co.uk: Reza Aslan: Books
 
R

Ramps

Was he writing before the war?
Yes. Paul was probably dead by the time of the War.

The underdog who triumphs.
Surely he could have triumphed without being subjected to crucifixion, the most excruciating and demeaning method of execution imaginable?! Also, why did Mark not feature a resurrected Jesus?!

However he wasn't, or so the narrative goes, killed by the Romans but rather by the Jewish Sanhedrin.
No; the gospels are quite clear that he was killed on the orders of Pilate. The Jews couldn't impose capital punishment in Judea, nor did they crucify people; that's why you can be sure it was Pilate what done it!

Thus you have the priests of the Temple split from the people and what was a rather coherent and highly structured religion fractured.
According to the gospels, the people ensured Jesus was crucified, by calling for his execution, following encouragement by the Jewish authorities.
 
R

Ramps

He wasn't necessarily from Nazareth. He may have been Jesus the Nazorean - something very different and far more incendiary.
Hang about....I thought the Romans invented a pacifist Jesus?!!
 

jmcc

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Yes. Paul was probably dead by the time of the War.
Based on what?

Surely he could have triumphed without being subjected to crucifixion,
Do you know what a Messiah really is and meant? If he was to be victorious it would have meant the defeat of the Romans.

Also, why did Mark not feature a resurrected Jesus?!
The three day resurrection story was common in a few religions of the era.

No; the gospels are quite clear that he was killed on the orders of Pilate. The Jews couldn't impose capital punishment in Judea, nor did they crucify people; that's why you can be sure it was Pilate what done it!
Your faith is quite amusing.

According to the gospels, the people ensured Jesus was crucified, by calling for his execution, following encouragement by the Jewish authorities.
Not the Romans then?
 

IbrahaimMohamad

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See Jesusneverexisted.com

Welcome to Enlightenment! ? Religion: the Tragedy of Mankind. Articles by Kenneth Humphreys

"Christianity was the ultimate product of religious syncretism in the ancient world. Its emergence owed nothing to a holy carpenter. There were many Jesuses but the fable was a cultural construct.

The nativity yarn is a concatenation of nonsense. The genealogies of Jesus, both Matthew's version and Luke's, are pious fiction. Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs.

With multiple authors behind the original gospel story it is no surprise that the figure of "Jesus" is a mess of contradictions. Yet the story is so thinly drawn that being a "good Christian" might mean almost anything.

The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin, that idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses. The pagan world knew all about virgins getting pregnant by randy gods: The Mythical "Virgin Mother".

Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road."
 

magnum44

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[video=youtube;vMo5R5pLPBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMo5R5pLPBE[/video]
 

Windowshopper

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I don't buy it.
 


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