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Strategies for Uniting Ireland

Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
13
As none of the parties seem to have clear ideas on this I decided to post this. Discounting military solutions and leaving aside demographic predictions, how best can we unite the people of Ireland? Also leave out the UK. heres what I thought of.

1. Forget about the unionists and stay true to our own meaning of Irishness. They can join us or leave.
2. Combine our culture with unionist culture and create a new Irish identity.
3. Forget about identity, become west europeans hoping that in the future national identities will not mean anything and then we'll join together out of pure economic logic.
4. Federalise ireland and let the unionists keep their own corner of Ireland, like a french speaking canton in Switzerland surrounded by german speaking cantons. Though we'd be one country again.


How long do you think each of these options would take and how much chance do they have in succeding? What is the most likely and which would each party go for?
 


Edo

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Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
3,040
No 4 would be the best option

In fact lets federalise the whole country -

The PRC down south always want to run things - so let them on - and let those whinging gits in the West get their own parliament so the rest of us dont have to listen to them crying any longer.

The Federal Republic of Ireland - bring it on!
 

QuizMaster

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May 26, 2004
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It seems like a lot of trouble to go to and for what?

You could always spend the same time and effort improving health, education, transport etc.

Boundaries are a man-made illusion. Why not unite Ireland with Scotland while we're at it? Or Meath with Westmeath. And let's face it Europe isn't really a continent.

Imagine you are seriously ill and you have to pick one from the 2 options below:
(A) The health service has improved to the extent that you can get life-saving treatment in good time, while enjoying a comfortable stay
(B) Inordinate delays lead to your suffering and death, but in a united Ireland.
 

32

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Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
84
huntergatherer said:
As none of the parties seem to have clear ideas on this I decided to post this. Discounting military solutions and leaving aside demographic predictions, how best can we unite the people of Ireland? Also leave out the UK. heres what I thought of.

1. Forget about the unionists and stay true to our own meaning of Irishness. They can join us or leave.
2. Combine our culture with unionist culture and create a new Irish identity.
3. Forget about identity, become west europeans hoping that in the future national identities will not mean anything and then we'll join together out of pure economic logic.
4. Federalise ireland and let the unionists keep their own corner of Ireland, like a french speaking canton in Switzerland surrounded by german speaking cantons. Though we'd be one country again.


How long do you think each of these options would take and how much chance do they have in succeding? What is the most likely and which would each party go for?





Allow me to be the first to point out that Republican Sinn Féin advocate your fourth point, so that discounts your bold claim that only you have clear ideas on a united Ireland. (Btw, I'm not a member or supporter of Sinn Féin Poblacht, but respect them)

As for a 'United Ireland', well the simple solution is for the Brits to pull out.
But for many, including new members of Sinn Féin (Parnell Square), a united Ireland is simply a concept of shoving Free State political structures into the 6 counties, and 'absorbing' a united Ireland; one by stealth, i.e. same tax rates etc..

To my mind, as a non-aligned Republican, a united Ireland is worth nothing if there is no social change. Both British created parliaments on this island must be dissolved, and a new national parliament created, with the ordinary people sovereign - not the sleaze or gombeenism rampant in 26 county politics, or the blatant sectarianism of 6 county politics.

How this is achieved has long been debated within republican circles. But I think a good first step is for England to relinquish her illegal hold of 6 Irish counties.
 

drbob1972

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Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
257
huntergatherer said:
2. Combine our culture with unionist culture and create a new Irish identity.
3. Forget about identity, become west europeans hoping that in the future national identities will not mean anything and then we'll join together out of pure economic logic.

so step 2 is create a new identity and step 3 (the very next step) is the forget about identity ?

that's some level of inefficiency and wasted time and effort, tell me are you a manager in the HSE also ?
 

Riadach

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Messages
12,817
drbob1972 said:
huntergatherer said:
2. Combine our culture with unionist culture and create a new Irish identity.
3. Forget about identity, become west europeans hoping that in the future national identities will not mean anything and then we'll join together out of pure economic logic.

so step 2 is create a new identity and step 3 (the very next step) is the forget about identity ?

that's some level of inefficiency and wasted time and effort, tell me are you a manager in the HSE also ?
These are options he is given, not a progression of steps.
 

restless

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Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
10
The GFA gave the people the democratic tools to adapt the institutions as they see fit. Trying to be too precise about the future won't work - who could have foreseen that the DUP would be the unionist party which was able to do the business after those nice moderates in the UUP tied themselves into knots trying to invent new pre-conditions?

Things will work themselves out. Most unionists believe that NI gainss an advantage by being part of the UK system while most nationalists would claim that there are practical advantages to treating the island of Ireland as one unit.

With the two communities in the North approaching parity it will be the approach which is most useful on the ground which wins, and if there have to be compromises on both sides maybe that isn't such a bad thing.
 

Limerick Lad

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Nov 17, 2006
Messages
4,596
32 said:
As for a 'United Ireland', well the simple solution is for the Brits to pull out.
But for many, including new members of Sinn Féin (Parnell Square), a united Ireland is simply a concept of shoving Free State political structures into the 6 counties, and 'absorbing' a united Ireland; one by stealth, i.e. same tax rates etc..

To my mind, as a non-aligned Republican, a united Ireland is worth nothing if there is no social change. Both British created parliaments on this island must be dissolved, and a new national parliament created, with the ordinary people sovereign - not the sleaze or gombeenism rampant in 26 county politics, or the blatant sectarianism of 6 county politics.

How this is achieved has long been debated within republican circles. But I think a good first step is for England to relinquish her illegal hold of 6 Irish counties.
The overly simplistic and naive "Brits Out" solution doesn't solve the question of over half the population of Northern Ireland considering themselves to be and being in fact British citizens. Would you propose to force them off the island of Ireland if they do not accept an imposed citizenship of a "United Ireland".
A united Ireland arrived at by agreement and consent of the people of Northern Ireland is the only viable and legal solution to the possibility of a united Ireland in the short but more likely long term.

Do you mean "with the ordinary people sovereign" that the politicians and Governments elected would just be those you agree with, it appears to me the "ordinary people of Ireland" have proved in many elections, local, general, European and constitutional referenda that they are sovereign and just because you, I or and any group of citizens doesn't agree with the choice of politicians or Governments sometimes elected or decisions made, it doesn't mean that the electorate didn't use their franchise freely to elect the politicians and Governments they wanted.
 
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
13
32 said:
huntergatherer said:
As none of the parties seem to have clear ideas on this I decided to post this. Discounting military solutions and leaving aside demographic predictions, how best can we unite the people of Ireland? Also leave out the UK. heres what I thought of.

1. Forget about the unionists and stay true to our own meaning of Irishness. They can join us or leave.
2. Combine our culture with unionist culture and create a new Irish identity.
3. Forget about identity, become west europeans hoping that in the future national identities will not mean anything and then we'll join together out of pure economic logic.
4. Federalise ireland and let the unionists keep their own corner of Ireland, like a french speaking canton in Switzerland surrounded by german speaking cantons. Though we'd be one country again.


How long do you think each of these options would take and how much chance do they have in succeding? What is the most likely and which would each party go for?





Allow me to be the first to point out that Republican Sinn Féin advocate your fourth point, so that discounts your bold claim that only you have clear ideas on a united Ireland. (Btw, I'm not a member or supporter of Sinn Féin Poblacht, but respect them)
I meant major parties (those with at least seats), but at least Sinn Fein Poblacht have a strategy which is more than can be said of any other party in Ireland. Why is that? Personally I would opt for 4 myself.
 

cactus flower

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
75
Pay for building a motorway and improved rail system Dublin - Belfast
Abandon National Spatial Strategy in favour of developing the Dublin - Belfast corridor
Use the Irish language (otherwise why bother with "Ireland" anyway)
 

padraig

Active member
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
208
Website
www.sinnfein.ie
huntergatherer said:
32 said:
huntergatherer said:
As none of the parties seem to have clear ideas on this I decided to post this. Discounting military solutions and leaving aside demographic predictions, how best can we unite the people of Ireland? Also leave out the UK. heres what I thought of.

1. Forget about the unionists and stay true to our own meaning of Irishness. They can join us or leave.
2. Combine our culture with unionist culture and create a new Irish identity.
3. Forget about identity, become west europeans hoping that in the future national identities will not mean anything and then we'll join together out of pure economic logic.
4. Federalise ireland and let the unionists keep their own corner of Ireland, like a french speaking canton in Switzerland surrounded by german speaking cantons. Though we'd be one country again.


How long do you think each of these options would take and how much chance do they have in succeding? What is the most likely and which would each party go for?





Allow me to be the first to point out that Republican Sinn Féin advocate your fourth point, so that discounts your bold claim that only you have clear ideas on a united Ireland. (Btw, I'm not a member or supporter of Sinn Féin Poblacht, but respect them)
I meant major parties (those with at least seats), but at least Sinn Fein Poblacht have a strategy which is more than can be said of any other party in Ireland. Why is that? Personally I would opt for 4 myself.
Éire Nua is not a stategy for getting a United Ireland, it is a possible plan for a form of governmental structure that can only be implemented in the event of a United Ireland being achieved, it dosen't offer any strategy on how to achieve that.
 

Aindriu

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Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,621
Limerick Lad said:
32 said:
As for a 'United Ireland', well the simple solution is for the Brits to pull out.
The overly simplistic and naive "Brits Out" solution doesn't solve the question of over half the population of Northern Ireland considering themselves to be and being in fact British citizens. Would you propose to force them off the island of Ireland if they do not accept an imposed citizenship of a "United Ireland".
How about financial compensation (paid by the ROI & British Government together) to those who do not wish to remain in the event of reunification? They could also be resettled in Scotland or England. As they consider themselves to be British it should not bother them too much to relocate.
 

Wild_Rover

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
1
Who really cares about a United Ireland? I know I don't. As long as I'm getting good services from my government - whatever government that is - and get the opportunity to choose my leaders I'm happy. Lines on a map don't matter that much.

Take away the accents and tell me a fundamental difference between a Limerickman and a Scouse.
 

PatMcL

Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
99
32 said:
As for a 'United Ireland', well the simple solution is for the Brits to pull out.
I am unsure if that is a simple solution or the solution of a simpleton. That is not a position the British are going to adopt now or in the very near future. Also, if it was adopted by the British, without the consent of northern unionists it would undoubtedly lead to a massive increase in violence from that community. What would your response be in that situation?

But for many, including new members of Sinn Féin (Parnell Square), a united Ireland is simply a concept of shoving Free State political structures into the 6 counties, and 'absorbing' a united Ireland; one by stealth, i.e. same tax rates etc.
You are obviously more interested in glib soundbites than any genuine debate on the policies of SF.

To my mind, as a non-aligned Republican, a united Ireland is worth nothing if there is no social change. Both British created parliaments on this island must be dissolved, and a new national parliament created, with the ordinary people sovereign - not the sleaze or gombeenism rampant in 26 county politics, or the blatant sectarianism of 6 county politics..
Gibberish, first year politics and soundbites again. What does 'the ordinary people sovereign' actually mean, how do they get this power?

How this is achieved has long been debated within republican circles. But I think a good first step is for England to relinquish her illegal hold of 6 Irish counties.
Long debated, but no clear and popular road map from people of your ilk on how to bring it about.
 

st333ve

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Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
2,101
Theres no doubt that militant republicanism is counter productive so i would completely rule that one out.

One step at a time..

I think that Republican parties should begin by trying to up the percentage of republican voters in the north come next election by getting more people involved in campaigning, havent some decent marketing and publicity and they should scrap the old cheesy campaign videos and go for something more neutral inspiring and modern.
I think FF contesting an election would give a lot of people a reason to vote who dont like the thought of those parties involved in the troubles.
I also think doorstep campaigning should be intensified and should begin at the time when people have to register to vote, ive never had anyone come to my door and i have never seen anyone campaigning around here.
I dont understand why party representitives hang around outside polling stations on election day asking people to vote when theyve already made up their mind.
I also dont understand why they dont urge people and campaign hard to get them to actually register to vote, this area is completely neglected.
Theres no point standing outside a polling station when people havent registered.

The first step towards changing the constitutional stance of northern Ireland will be when unionists lose a lump of seats in Stormont.
Theyre not going to budge while they still have the old medievil superiority complex and they think theyre invinsible.
 

Macca

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
13
The quickest way to re-unite Ireland:

The Irish government requests for the Republic to rejoin the Union.

There you are, Ireland will be reunited just like it was before and we put these 88 years of partitionist nonsense behind us. :D
 

st333ve

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Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
2,101
Aye sure lets bring back Yugoslavia and the Soviet union also.

It doesnt matter if Ireland was united under british rule, it doesnt matter if it ever was united it only matters that people desire it to be in the future.

The north will never prosper under British rule, we're stuck mimicing Englands economic taxation policies that will never suit the infastructure here.
We cant even attract investment because of the corp tax.
Next year the economy in the north will be hit hard, no incoming investment and a recession on the way in America.
And what can we do ?
Nothing because unionists want to remain Englands puppets forever.
It doesnt even matter that all unionist and republican parties want to drop tax to attract incoming investment and boost our economy,it doesnt matter that together these parties have a mandate from almost 100% of the voting population now thats democracy eh? :roll:
England says no, their reasons are that a prosperous NI would damage Britains economy.
They will keep us down and unionists will continue supporting them in doing so.
 

Riadach

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Feb 9, 2007
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12,817
There is also the environmental angle. All those Northern Ireland mps tooing and froing from London to Belfast every week. Think of the carbon footprint. Not to mention the bureaucrats.
 

Amach na Casca

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Joined
May 29, 2007
Messages
444
Riadach said:
There is also the environmental angle. All those Northern Ireland mps tooing and froing from London to Belfast every week. Think of the carbon footprint. Not to mention the bureaucrats.
True they could be getting a train to take their place in Dáil Éireann instead. The Greens in the Six should declare Nationalist for that reason alone.
 

bogsider16

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
20
Aindriu said:
Limerick Lad said:
32 said:
As for a 'United Ireland', well the simple solution is for the Brits to pull out.
The overly simplistic and naive "Brits Out" solution doesn't solve the question of over half the population of Northern Ireland considering themselves to be and being in fact British citizens. Would you propose to force them off the island of Ireland if they do not accept an imposed citizenship of a "United Ireland".
How about financial compensation (paid by the ROI & British Government together) to those who do not wish to remain in the event of reunification? They could also be resettled in Scotland or England. As they consider themselves to be British it should not bother them too much to relocate.
Thats crazy, you just expect them to pack up and leave in spite of all the roots, economic and social they have created since they were planted here.
If this is the best solution available then we really are a million miles fron a 32 county united Ireland
 


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