Subordinated Anglo debt swap 'tantamount to default' - IT & Bloomberg



He3

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Too little, too late.
 

smitchy2

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No its not. They are no longer guaranteed since the end of last month.
They don’t deserve a cent.
 

Clanrickard

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Baddaddy

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Due to the fact that I'm uneducated in regard to much of this, I need to ask a question.

Why is defaulting on our debt so desirable by some people.

I simply don't get it.
 

Nipper

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Due to the fact that I'm uneducated in regard to much of this, I need to ask a question.

Why is defaulting on our debt so desirable by some people.

I simply don't get it.

It is not and never was "our" debt.

It is the debt of an insolvent company with limited Liability.
 

dubboy

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Makes it even worse imo, so we didn't want to default because it would bring ireland down, but now having plugged 35 billion into the bank we are defaulting on the last insignificant bit anyway as some token gesture. crazy
 

Expatriot

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If the money poured into Anglo et al had been used instead to pour into the setting up or saving of one good state bank we would be a far better position to set our our agenda. We need Anglo now, that should never have been the case. It is amazing that we may spend 200 billion on banking etc and still not have got one bank off the floor.
 

HarshBuzz

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Q: have Anglo CDS payouts been triggered yet?

if yes, then it meets the technical (i.e. ISDA\DTCC) defintion of a 'default event'
 

Clanrickard

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cyberianpan

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HarshBuzz

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what about the CDS cYp?
 

cyberianpan

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what about the CDS cYp?
That will be fun... also I'm presuming that Anglo is still limited liability etc... so such can't affect the sovereign

An amusing weirdity out of this: nobody ever seems to have figured just how sub debt could be "called"/vaporized/"resolved" ... it was as if no one thought it really was risk capital

cYp
 

HarshBuzz

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An amusing weirdity out of this: nobody ever seems to have figured just how sub debt could be "called"/vaporized/"resolved" ... it was as if no one thought it really was risk capital

cYp
looks like the same people (correctly) thought that senior traded debt wasn't risk capital either

for a good reason; Lenihan
 

cyberianpan

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looks like the same people (correctly) thought that senior traded debt wasn't risk capital either

for a good reason; Lenihan
Senior debt isn't debt like normal corporate debt... it is the same as deposits... indeed large wodges of it are certificates of deposit

CAD/Basle etc said that there was meant to be c 8% at risk vs 92% loaned out ... and that teh Regulator was responsible for making sure there was sufficient bulwark of the 8%. Without reasonable surety of deposits: fractional reserve banking dies.

cYp
 

Libero

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Q: have Anglo CDS payouts been triggered yet?

if yes, then it meets the technical (i.e. ISDA\DTCC) defintion of a 'default event'
Have any CDS contracts ever been written against Anglo sub debt? I suppose we might never know, since that sort of thing is OTC and typically not registered on any exchange, or even in the public filings of the parties involved.

As ever, the answer to your question depends on the actual terms of the CDS agreement, which can be based on a form template (e.g. ISDA) but tailored between the two parties.
 

HarshBuzz

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Senior debt isn't debt like normal corporate debt... it is the same as deposits... indeed large wodges of it are certificates of deposit
ah, for Christ's sake - you're supposed to be one of the bright ones!

it has a market price and an implied yield - it is NOT the 'same as deposits'. It is exactly the same as corporate debt - ask the Lehmans bondholders!

feck's sake cYp :eek:
 


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