Sunday Independent report on public sector pay

patslatt

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See Comparing public and private sectors is not like for like - Independent.ie
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/report-gives-insight-into-reasons-for-salary-disputes-35247850.html

The top linked article is the main commentary on the pay data which includes new sources.

Unfortunately, the author Eoin O'Malley ignores the elephant in the statistical room-the fact that in many EU countries like France and Germany, averages of pay are more or less equal in both the private and public sectors. In contrast, the Irish public sector enjoys a pay premium with pay over 40% higher than the private sector pay average, not to mention jobs for life for all and gold plated defined benefit pensions for the top half of the payroll. In the UK,the public sector pay average is only 13% higher.

O'Malley argues that higher education standards justify the Irish public sector pay premium. But presumably the French, German and UK public sectors also have higher education standards than their private sectors but that hasn't led to big pay premiums. Besides,nobody would argue that the Irish public sector has higher productivity than these countries.

Postscript. See 2010 pay figures for hourly public sector pay as a percent of private sector pay http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/economic_paper/2013/pdf/ecp508_en.pdf Table 1, page 10, eyeballed figures on bar charts show for advanced EU countries UK +12%, France (Fr) +23%, Netherlands (NL) +10%, Finland (FI) -5%, Sweden (SK) -1%, Denmark (DK) -3%. Ireland (IE) is way above these at +38%, which contrasts with the three small Scandinavian countries' average of minus 3%. Low income Greece and Portugal and politically chaotic Italy are unsuitable for comparisons but all three top the public sector pay charts. Figures for average hourly pay show different results to average pay which I quoted in the third paragraph above.
 
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the secretary

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See Comparing public and private sectors is not like for like - Independent.ie

This linked article is the main commentary on the pay data which includes new sources.

Unfortunately, the author Eoin O'Malley ignores the elephant in the statistical room-the fact that in many EU countries like France and Germany, averages of pay are more or less equal in both the private and public sectors. In contrast, the Irish public sector enjoys a pay premium with pay over 40% higher than the private sector pay average, not to mention jobs for life for all and gold plated defined benefit pensions for the top half of the payroll. In the UK,the public sector pay average is only 13% higher.

O'Malley argues that higher education standards justify the Irish public sector pay premium. But presumably the French, German and UK public sectors also have higher education standards than their private sectors but that hasn't led to big pay premiums. Besides. nobody would argue that the Irish public sector has higher productivity than these countries.
Isn't that great, if you haven't a job in the private sector then you should get one.
 

Dame_Enda

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I have criticised PS pay in the past. I think its a case by case issue (or should be). There are pockets of low PS pay such as the Gardai that need taking care of. The problem is that tackling PS pay deficits in some areas will spark knock-on pay claims elsewhere in the PS

A solution might be to turn An Garda Siochana into a semi state, so that they can negotiate their terms and conditions with a Commissioner without direct govt involvement. And maybe likewise with the health service etc
 

HarshBuzz

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I have criticised PS pay in the past. I think its a case by case issue (or should be). There are pockets of low PS pay such as the Gardai that need taking care of. The problem is that tackling PS pay deficits in some areas will spark knock-on pay claims elsewhere in the PS

A solution might be to turn An Garda Siochana into a semi state, so that they can negotiate their terms and conditions with a Commissioner without direct govt involvement. And maybe likewise with the health service etc
This solution only works if you have a revenue stream.
 

Therightroad

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The lump sums at retirement and guaranteed pensions of the public service are a huge carrot ... Most private sector workers will never see pensions like these !
 

hiding behind a poster

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Unfortunately, the author Eoin O'Malley ignores the elephant in the statistical room-the fact that in many EU countries like France and Germany, averages of pay are more or less equal in both the private and public sectors. In contrast, the Irish public sector enjoys a pay premium with pay over 40% higher than the private sector pay average
No it doesn't Pat, and you know it. If you think otherwise, please post the result of any survey of comparable jobs and their pay rates in public and private sectors.
 

hiding behind a poster

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I have criticised PS pay in the past. I think its a case by case issue (or should be). There are pockets of low PS pay such as the Gardai that need taking care of. The problem is that tackling PS pay deficits in some areas will spark knock-on pay claims elsewhere in the PS

A solution might be to turn An Garda Siochana into a semi state, so that they can negotiate their terms and conditions with a Commissioner without direct govt involvement. And maybe likewise with the health service etc
You want the State policing service to be franchised out from the State????

Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket, that's barmy.
 

paulp

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The lump sums at retirement and guaranteed pensions of the public service are a huge carrot ... Most private sector workers will never see pensions like these !
so, should we drag public sector pensions down to private sector levels or work to ensure private sector workers can have a similar standard pension to public sector?
 

im axeled

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The lump sums at retirement and guaranteed pensions of the public service are a huge carrot ... Most private sector workers will never see pensions like these !
add on the free travel, the medicaql card when they reach 70, etc etc
 

im axeled

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so, should we drag public sector pensions down to private sector levels or work to ensure private sector workers can have a similar standard pension to public sector?
private sector wages in ireland will never reqach public sector wages in the majority of cases, the caressing of migrants to work for little is a case in hand
 

paulp

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private sector wages in ireland will never reqach public sector wages in the majority of cases, the caressing of migrants to work for little is a case in hand
i think the unions in the private sector have let their workers down, and will sell out future workers to keep current workers happy
 

Dame_Enda

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You want the State policing service to be franchised out from the State????

Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket, that's barmy.
We have to find a solution to pockets of low pay in the PS without the whole PS going on strike. This is one way. And a semi state is still mainly state owned.
HarshBuzz said:
This solution only works if you have a revenue stream.
Give them a share of the legal costs of convicts and all of the proceeds of parking tickets.
 

Morgellons

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I put it to you that if there wasn't a well paid public service in this country, then we wouldn't really have a country.
 

making waves

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O'Malley argues that higher education standards justify the Irish public sector pay premium. But presumably the French, German and UK public sectors also have higher education standards than their private sectors but that hasn't led to big pay premiums.
patslatt PRESUMES - wonders will never cease

Besides,nobody would argue that the Irish public sector has higher productivity than these countries.
And patslatt likes his 'presumptions'
 

Dame_Enda

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I put it to you that if there wasn't a well paid public service in this country, then we wouldn't really have a country.
Its largely well paid but not all of it. We need to be able to tackle the exceptions without knock on industrial action. The Gardai in particular are a deserving case.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Morgellons

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Its largely well paid but not all of it. We need to be able to tackle the exceptions without knock on industrial action. The Gardai in particular are a deserving case.
Possibly, but my point was more that the public service and the post with the harp on the envelope are the only things that make this country unique. That and the GAA.

Take those two away and what's left? A homogenous population-no. Strong domestic economy-no. A unique language-no. A strong culture-no.

That's why people like Marian Finucane, Turbridy and D'Arcy get the money they do. They are considered the glue that keeps this show on the road. Reality is, we are a very precarious nation.
 

hiding behind a poster

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Its largely well paid but not all of it. We need to be able to tackle the exceptions without knock on industrial action. The Gardai in particular are a deserving case.
Garda pay is broadly in line with police pay in other countries.
 


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