• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Surrogates Sister Wins Case to be Recognised as the Genetic Parent on Twins Birth Certs.


damus

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
23,661
The genetic mother of surrogate twins has won her case in the HC to be named as the genetic mother on her twins birth certs in a HC ruling that was delivered by Mr. Justice Henry Abbott. Justice Abbott granted a number declarations which allowed for the genetic parents to be named on the childrens birth certs and for the particulars of their maternity to be also recorded on the birth certs.

The genetic parents took the case after they she was refused the right to be named as the genetic mother on the childrens birth certs with the state opposing the application on the grounds that only the birth mother can be legally recognised as the legal mother. The sister who agreed to act as a surrogate for her sister also supported the application for her sister to be legally recognised as the childrens legal mother on their birth certs. It is expected that the State will appeal the ruling to the Supreme Court.

This raises a couple of questions. While it vindicates the rights of the genetic parents and the child, will there be any unintended consequences from this ruling if it's held up in the Supreme Court? Obviously, this will strenghten the case of the genetic parents in situatinos where the surrogotate refuses to hand over the child. What happens with other aspects of genetic reproduction though like sperm or egg donation - could we see a situation where they would have a similar right to be recognised as the childs legal parents or for the circumstances of their maternity to be formally recorded on the childs birth certs? Or what happens if the child wants to know who their genetic parents are in latter years, will they have the right to get access to the names of their genetic parents?

Surrogate's sister wins landmark ruling to be recognised legally as mum of twins - Independent.ie
 
Last edited:


IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,221
Now Adopted children must be allowed knowledge of their genetic origins!
 

damus

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
23,661
Now Adopted children must be allowed knowledge of their genetic origins!
That's what I was thinking...and in addition to the circumstances of the childs birth being formally recorded on the birth cert, you would also think that children who were conceived through sperm and egg donation may also have the same right.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,619
Now Adopted children must be allowed knowledge of their genetic origins!
Not so. Adoptions are grounded in law where parenthood is transfered to the new parents.
This was a challenge surrounding surrogacy and it's implications.

Right call. Fathers are judged to be fathers legally by DNA so why not Mothers. Nobody loses in this case.
 

damus

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
23,661
Not so. Adoptions are grounded in law where parenthood is transfered to the new parents.
This was a challenge surrounding surrogacy and it's implications.

Right call. Fathers are judged to be fathers legally by DNA so why not Mothers. Nobody loses in this case.
But the ruling said that the circumstances of the maternity should be formally recorded on the birth cert.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,619
But the ruling said that the circumstances of the maternity should be formally recorded on the birth cert.
Yep, because there was confusion over who was the legal mother. Not so in adoptions which is clear cut. This was challenging a different law which stated "Mater Certa Semper Est" - motherhood is always certain.
DNA changes this.
Adoptions are bound by law.
 
D

Dylan2010

it seems a no brianer decision, I hope the state doesnt fight this and changes the law presently
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,619
One potential stumbling block I foresee however is if a woman donates eggs to another woman who wants to have her own kids but cannot.
What if the biological mother then changes her mind at birth and wants to be named the legal mother?

However, I think the common good is served with this decision.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,619
One potential stumbling block I foresee however is if a woman donates eggs to another woman who wants to have her own kids but cannot.
What if the biological mother then changes her mind at birth and wants to be named the legal mother?

However, I think the common good is served with this decision.
I suppose when the donation of the egg occurs, a legal transfer of parenthood could be transfered to the surrogate in these cases. But the default would be the genetic mother is the legal mother outside of adoption.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,253
I'd be very surprised if the State doesn't appeal this judgement.
 

eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,300
Good News.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,723
One potential stumbling block I foresee however is if a woman donates eggs to another woman who wants to have her own kids but cannot.
What if the biological mother then changes her mind at birth and wants to be named the legal mother?
A lot of IVF pregnancies are achieved using donated eggs. The success rate is a lot higher, because the woman wanting to get pregnant is often past the ideal reproductive age, on top of other possible fertility problems.

I only learned this when my sister in law went down that route. Their first attempts at ovarian stimulation didnt give good quality eggs, and they were advised not to try any more, that their only realistic chance was using donated eggs, and that this is very frequent. It's just that most people don't tell anyone.

Don't know if that is a good thing or not. I suspect it may not be for the child so much as for the parents though.
 

The Preacher

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
684
A lot of IVF pregnancies are achieved using donated eggs. The success rate is a lot higher, because the woman wanting to get pregnant is often past the ideal reproductive age, on top of other possible fertility problems.

I only learned this when my sister in law went down that route. Their first attempts at ovarian stimulation didnt give good quality eggs, and they were advised not to try any more, that their only realistic chance was using donated eggs, and that this is very frequent. It's just that most people don't tell anyone.

Don't know if that is a good thing or not. I suspect it may not be for the child so much as for the parents though.
It's a good thing if you want designer babies. An ex-partner of mine decided she wanted one and got two in the end. She was given plenty of information about the donor father and mother. Seven years on, there are two happy, healthy kids who call me Daddy even though I'm not. It's a funny old world. :roll:
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,723
It's a good thing if you want designer babies. An ex-partner of mine decided she wanted one and got two in the end. She was given plenty of information about the donor father and mother. Seven years on, there are two happy, healthy kids who call me Daddy even though I'm not. It's a funny old world. :roll:
That wasn't the case at all for my SiL. It wasn't about designer babies, and it cost them all their savings. If they could have had their own, they would have.

Why would anyone want a "designer" baby that wasn't theirs genetically? It's not like selecting among your own eggs/sperm cells to choose the best of those. Might as well choose to go to a Russian orphanage and pick the blondest most good-looking there - far less risky too, since the baby is actually visible. I'm rather sceptical about that story, tbf.
 

Orbit v2

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
11,643
Apparently, one of the expert witnesses to the case made the point that it actually should be what she called the "commissioning" mother who is recorded. That might be the genetic mother or birth mother depending on the case. Donor eggs would be the second case.

It struck me that the case made by the births registrar wasn't very strong. Semper mater certa est sounds very impressive, but the idea has been overtaken by science.
 

The Preacher

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
684
That wasn't the case at all for my SiL. It wasn't about designer babies, and it cost them all their savings. If they could have had their own, they would have.

Why would anyone want a "designer" baby that wasn't theirs genetically? It's not like selecting among your own eggs/sperm cells to choose the best of those. Might as well choose to go to a Russian orphanage and pick the blondest most good-looking there - far less risky too, since the baby is actually visible. I'm rather sceptical about that story, tbf.
I may have over - egged the pudding a little as I'm a little cynical about the whole thing as a result of my experience, but I can assure you that the facts of the story are true. I should know...I was in the delivery room when they were born.
 

petaljam

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
30,723
I may have over - egged the pudding a little as I'm a little cynical about the whole thing as a result of my experience, but I can assure you that the facts of the story are true. I should know...I was in the delivery room when they were born.
Oh, I wasn't doubting that your ex-partner had had IVF and egg donation, my query was about your presentation of the motiviation begind it as being about wanting a designer baby.

Unless there is a genetic flaw in the family, I can't see that someone would choose to go through all that for a baby which is not theirs genetically. Easier to either make your own, or adopt one who can actually be examined for defects because it is already born.
 

ger12

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
48,253

davidcameron

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
8,768
While it vindicates the rights of the genetic parents and the child, will there be any unintended consequences from this ruling if it's held up in the Supreme Court?
The State has to consider the judgement when it is published before it decides whether or not to appeal. Given that legislation on the issue will be introduced later this year, I find it hard to believe that there will be an appeal.

I don't condone surrogacy but I believe that the genetic mother should be recognised as the mother in the eyes of the law so that the children will not suffer.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top