Sweden adopts new law that says sex without consent is rape. How do you prove consent?

Lagertha

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bob3344

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So this is what it says on the tin. I would always say that sex without consent is rape. How is this law workable? Say for arguments sake, that a person is the victim of an unfounded malicious accusation of rape with someone who they either had consensual sex with or didn't have sex with at all, prove that?

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/sweden-adopts-law-saying-sex-without-consent-is-rape-36942412.html
Someone was telling me that the actor Leonardo di Caprio actually records his conquests consenting on his phone before getting started.
 

Analyzer

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Strangely enough, sex without consent is a form of abuse.

Though I suspect that the Swedish state will also introduce an exemption clause for actual rape, on the basis that some people have an affinity for it and should be allowed to follow their urge based on entitlement.

Sweden is a Loony bin.
 

Dame_Enda

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In theory a good idea in practice fraught with problems. How many times must one ask for consent? Every 10 minutes? Every five minutes? Is once enough? For example suppose when someone has their first time with one particular partner and the first time they ask permission. So after that when they sent a text message or email saying their coming around and both parties understand what that means - without actually verbally asking for consent again. Is it then "rape" for the partner to get into bed and have sex with another person if they dont use the words to the effect that they consent - even if both sides are willing? In my opinion the answer is no. But in Swedish law it will soon be "Yes" I think.
 

the secretary

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Someone was telling me that the actor Leonardo di Caprio actually records his conquests consenting on his phone before getting started.
It looks like it is actually heading that way for everyone
 

ruserious

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If two adults have sex without asking each other for consent, are they raping each other?
 

Mercurial

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So this is what it says on the tin. I would always say that sex without consent is rape. How is this law workable? Say for arguments sake, that a person is the victim of an unfounded malicious accusation of rape with someone who they either had consensual sex with or didn't have sex with at all, prove that? How can you prove that you had explicit consent?

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/sweden-adopts-law-saying-sex-without-consent-is-rape-36942412.html
You don't have to prove it. The burden of proof rests with the prosecution to show that you didn't have explicit consent.
 

Analyzer

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If two adults have sex without asking each other for consent, are they raping each other?
Ask one of the D4 banks.

Oh...hold on....they are not run by adults.
 

talkingshop

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So this is what it says on the tin. I would always say that sex without consent is rape. How is this law workable? Say for arguments sake, that a person is the victim of an unfounded malicious accusation of rape with someone who they either had consensual sex with or didn't have sex with at all, prove that? How can you prove that you had explicit consent?

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/sweden-adopts-law-saying-sex-without-consent-is-rape-36942412.html
And any person accused of rape will say they asked for consent and got it, even if they didn't.

And we're back to whom the jury believes. Silly law.
 

Mercurial

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Strangely enough, sex without consent is a form of abuse.

Though I suspect that the Swedish state will also introduce an exemption clause for actual rape, on the basis that some people have an affinity for it and should be allowed to follow their urge based on entitlement.
That's Julian Assange sorted then.
 

Mercurial

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And any person accused of rape will say they asked for consent and got it, even if they didn't.

And we're back to whom the jury believes. Silly law.
It's not silly, since it removes possible defenses that would previously have been available to those accused of rape (and rightly so).
 

General Urko

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Isn't there something about ladies in Sweden also being allowed to retrospectively withdraw consent with a time lapse from the actual event!

Also weren't a few serious loons suggesting a drink driving limit for ladies before they could freely give consent to a male fúcking them! Thus infantalising women, while at the same time giving them full abortion rights up to actual birth of their foetus!
 

talkingshop

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In theory a good idea in practice fraught with problems. How many times must one ask for consent? Every 10 minutes? Every five minutes?
Yes. Will consent have to be asked for numerous times, for different actions? Or will it be just the act of "sexual intercourse", as defined in law, that explicit consent will have to be given for, I wonder...
 

j26

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It's just bringing Sweden into line with Ireland - here rape is defined as sex without consent, and the person knows the other doesn't consent or is reckless as to whether there is consent.
 

Dame_Enda

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This type of law could have ironic, hypocritical, and in some ways amusing consequences. In Sweden they have the Swedish model (which criminalises buyers of sex workers). I think this law could ironically amount to longterm legalisation as follows:

Say they allow people to signal consent by signing sexual consent contracts e.g. I consent for one hour, two hours etc. And then suppose they tax the contract. So then you effectively have paying for sex, which shows how the feminists are tying themselves up in ideological knots. :p
 

talkingshop

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It's not silly, since it removes possible defenses that would previously have been available to those accused of rape (and rightly so).
You're getting confused - this is not about "defenses" but about what constitutes the crime of rape.
 

Lagertha

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You don't have to prove it. The burden of proof rests with the prosecution to show that you didn't have explicit consent.
It isn't workable though. The reality is that it is almost impossible for anyone to prove that they had explicit consent. A person who gives consent can withdraw that consent at any point, and rightly so. I'm in favour of legislation that protects men and women equally and anyone that is guilty of rape should go to prison for that rape. What Sweden has just done seems destined to cause problems rather than provide solutions.
 


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