Sylvia Hermon out of UUP Leadership contest

BarryW

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DOD said:
Ideologically opposed to Republicanism. I would hope FG would not have anyone who is not ideologically opposed to murder. I know SF wouldn't let in such people to their ranks.
I know several FG TDs and Senators who call themselves Republicans - just not the shooting, bombing, murdering kind.

And there's the problem you see- SF/IRA have tarnished the term "republican". Thats a fact - so don't whinge when it is sometimes used as a derogotory term.

Mary Lou McDonald seems to think that an ideological opposition to murder was some kind of unheralded new dawn in Irish society.
Remember her "Murder is Wrong" revelation on Q&A a few months back.

I suppose when you claim to draw on that form of Republicanism that has murdered 1,900 people; exalt the murderes as heroes; and go to visit these murderers in prison - maybe it is some kind of revalation...........
 


Oldira

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pluralist said:
I guess Burnside is the front runner now.

Good news, he will not compromise on his principles and will not capitulate to terrorists.
Baloney! Burnside was leadinh member of Vanguard who were nothing but a quasi-militia/terrorist force. Get you facts right.
 

DOD

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BarryW said:
I know several FG TDs and Senators who call themselves Republicans - just not the shooting, bombing, murdering kind.
Glad that apparently I have something in common with some members of FG.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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The UUP lost because their leadership pandered to the anti-agreement wing of their party. In doing so, it strengthened Unionist suspicions that the agreement was flawed, appearing to prove the DUP right.

But surely the fairness of an electoral system that gives the SDLP 3 seats (17% of the vote) while giving the UUP (17.7% of the vote) 1 seat should be called into question here. Not to mention one that gives the DUP half the seats (9 out of 18 ) on 33% of the vote.
 

Itsalaugh

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Interestingly, Laurence McKeown's column in Daily Ireland last Friday made reference to how apparently, she poke on RTE radio and commended Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness for enquiring about her husband's health, which is something the DUP never did. He went on to speak about Republicanism's humanity. This is a point that is often missed, but I don't think it was by Lady Hermon. Perhaps that is part of the reason she doesn't want to go forward. I would say Empey is their only choice now. I'd prefer Nesbit, but that is unlikely to happen.
I wonder could Lady Hermon be the visionary and catalyst to begin Ulster Protestant's reawakening that their future lies with Ireland. She grew up in arguably Ireland's most Republican neighbourhood and knows that her neighbours were not motivated by sectarian supremacy but instead a Wolfe Tone-esque desire to unite us all under one banner. Her silence is now deafening, so I wonder is she experiencing a personal transformation.
 

DT123

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I wonder could Lady Hermon be the visionary and catalyst to begin Ulster Protestant's reawakening that their future lies with Ireland. She grew up in arguably Ireland's most Republican neighbourhood and knows that her neighbours were not motivated by sectarian supremacy but instead a Wolfe Tone-esque desire to unite us all under one banner. Her silence is now deafening, so I wonder is she experiencing a personal transformation.
Just when you thought you had heard all the crap republican revisionists can come up with,you get this gem.
 

physicist

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I wonder could Lady Hermon be the visionary and catalyst to begin Ulster Protestant's reawakening that their future lies with Ireland. She grew up in arguably Ireland's most Republican neighbourhood and knows that her neighbours were not motivated by sectarian supremacy but instead a Wolfe Tone-esque desire to unite us all under one banner. Her silence is now deafening, so I wonder is she experiencing a personal transformation.
Slyvia Hermon has not been silent on trying to unify people been vocally positive about a papal visit, like most people in the North of this isle she realises that sectarianism is the scourge of all people here, regardless of politics or religion, it is nothing more than an ancient irrelevant vendetta and I would shed no tear if even the most bitterest of either community could no longer justify being labeled sectarian, even if it puts to bed the strawman them and us banners. The militant republican movement has caused that woman great pain, the loss of a husband, the destruction of her family, and yet she carries on with admirable dignity and grace. Herman perhaps has to paraphrase Tone's complement of Catholics "sacrificed her own interests to a rigid principle of honour", her often silent endurance is dignified not deafening.

If Sinn Féin supporters believe that the violent acts caused "to unify people under one banner" has the capacity to begin a process of "Ulster Protestants being reawakened that their future lies with Ireland", and that it is somehow justified by the Irish republican military actions of the past, then I would suggest having a look at the Civil War Politics on both sides of the island that self determination on the basis of militant authority rather than a consensus for the common good has built.
 

Itsalaugh

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Dt123, wait I've got another gem for you. Why didn't the IRA ever bomb Scotland? Answer they're aware of the delicate sectarian situation there and didn't want to forment the same 'divide and rule', Machiavellian, insensitive and downright evil policy the Crown enacted in Ireland. So put that in your smelly pipe you Imperialist apologist for a soon to be defeated extinct empire :)
 

physicist

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Dt123, wait I've got another gem for you. Why didn't the IRA ever bomb Scotland? Answer they're aware of the delicate sectarian situation there and didn't want to forment the same 'divide and rule', Machiavellian, insensitive and downright evil policy the Crown enacted in Ireland. So put that in your smelly pipe you Imperialist apologist for a soon to be defeated extinct empire :)
I could counter that argument by asking despite sectarianism and religious discrimination, (and indeed the class divide) in Scotland, how had the leader of Scottish nationalism managed to get an independence referendum and a majority government without a military campaign, yet Sinn Féins which still has active political members needing to venerate the IRA, are 25 seats from majority, Irish nationalism even if you do count Anna Lo who didn't need to stand on a nationalist ticket is still 10 out of the 108 seats away, A net gain of one seat at the last election in the North is slow progress.
 

cricket

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I wonder could Lady Hermon be the visionary and catalyst to begin Ulster Protestant's reawakening that their future lies with Ireland. She grew up in arguably Ireland's most Republican neighbourhood and knows that her neighbours were not motivated by sectarian supremacy but instead a Wolfe Tone-esque desire to unite us all under one banner. Her silence is now deafening, so I wonder is she experiencing a personal transformation.
Obviously, not all the headshops are closed, their products are still affecting their customers. Imagine, it took 9 years to come up with this :rolleyes:
 

Itsalaugh

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Slyvia Hermon has not been silent on trying to unify people been vocally positive about a papal visit, like most people in the North of this isle she realises that sectarianism is the scourge of all people here, regardless of politics or religion, it is nothing more than an ancient irrelevant vendetta and I would shed no tear if even the most bitterest of either community could no longer justify being labeled sectarian, even if it puts to bed the strawman them and us banners. The militant republican movement has caused that woman great pain, the loss of a husband, the destruction of her family, and yet she carries on with admirable dignity and grace. Herman perhaps has to paraphrase Tone's complement of Catholics "sacrificed her own interests to a rigid principle of honour", her often silent endurance is dignified not deafening.

If Sinn Féin supporters believe that the violent acts caused "to unify people under one banner" has the capacity to begin a process of "Ulster Protestants being reawakened that their future lies with Ireland", and that it is somehow justified by the Irish republican military actions of the past, then I would suggest having a look at the Civil War Politics on both sides of the island that self determination on the basis of militant authority rather than a consensus for the common good has built.
Obviously the 'War' didn't work but all Unionists have in their armoury now is to play the fear card, the 'evil Provo monsters' and it seems to be a narrative you've slightly absorbed. Republicans carried out a long-war to end Partition. Its ethos was inspired by Wolfe Tone. Hence why after it ended a negligible number of the many, many thousands of IRA volunteers have become involved in criminal activity that you would frown upon.
 

Itsalaugh

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Obviously, not all the headshops are closed, their products are still affecting their customers. Imagine, it took 9 years to come up with this :rolleyes:
So your telling me that I'm banging me head against a wall for believing any visionary will emerge within Ulster Protestantism to lead them back with dignity into the Irish Family.
I've more hope in by fellow Irish people.
 

physicist

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Obviously the 'War' didn't work but all Unionists have in their armoury now is to play the fear card, the 'evil Provo monsters' and it seems to be a narrative you've slightly absorbed. Republicans carried out a long-war to end Partition. Its ethos was inspired by Wolfe Tone. Hence why after it ended a negligible number of the many, many thousands of IRA volunteers have become involved in criminal activity that you would frown upon.
A Sinn Féin TD, Peadar Tobin, (who was briefly suspended over an unrelated rebellion but has returned) spoke about dealing with the past without ideologically tinted glasses including those of the republican movement. Peadar does seem to see sense in the fact that republicanism is not really an ideology or a dogma but a principle that defends the politics which emerges from the people. An Ireland of its own making in the true republican mode would have people of all opinions, those critical and in support of past violence in the name of revolutionary cause or defensive purpose, it would also allow for those who are critical of a Republic equal say with one who will defend one. Peadar and I would probably disagree over the legimacy or justification for violence, but I accept his affirmation of any Ireland of equals would be made up of people with different banners and opinions, I would be on common ground with anyone of any party who says that.

A united Ireland means the unity of all narratives in the cause of something better, I see traces of that unity when nationalists and unionists campaign for a satellite radiotherapy centre, stand together at the funeral, when Orangemen attend Catholic funerals and Republicans toast the queen, watch a rugby team together, or when people can agree to allow an ABOD march celebrate their history.
The economic, political and social changes to truely create a unified Ireland are things that it is okay to be sceptical or worried about, it needs to offer people more than what people see as the pragmatic benefits of partition, and accept all people's right to make a difference in it.
 

Itsalaugh

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Phsyicist, I agree with many of your noble sentiments but first Irish Protestantism has to decide does it want to be part of the Irish Family. They were used by the Imperialists to thwart Irish Separation but yet all people who subscribe to Republicanism on this island repeatedly state that their traditions, property etc will be respected. All the Unionists have now is their demonology of Republicans backed up by Southern Partitionists wishing to preserve the failed status quo and no Irish Protestant visionary seems forthcoming to announce that change is required. Are you happy with the GFA and its sectarianised framework remaining. I think not. I hope your party will make more inwards into capturing Protestant voices but it would help with some honesty that Republicans are open to Protestant concerns and weren't Monsters, that the Imperialist in London were to blame, that we need change and their Protestant input in a new Ireland, that the Southern Partitionists were a disgrace.

Your a learned scribe here on P.ie. Please consider my earlier point to DT on the IRA and Scotland in comparison to the Crown tactics in Ireland. Irish People have been exploited, manipulated and greatly abused. We have come through that with most of our better characteristics still intact, NI is safer than The 26, London or Glasgow. Don't take lectures from the Gombeens or Imperialists and demAnd more vision from our Irish Protestants Brothers. They only have one future and I want it here.
 

devonish

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Phsyicist, I agree with many of your noble sentiments but first Irish Protestantism has to decide does it want to be part of the Irish Family. They were used by the Imperialists to thwart Irish Separation but yet all people who subscribe to Republicanism on this island repeatedly state that their traditions, property etc will be respected. All the Unionists have now is their demonology of Republicans backed up by Southern Partitionists wishing to preserve the failed status quo and no Irish Protestant visionary seems forthcoming to announce that change is required. Are you happy with the GFA and its sectarianised framework remaining. I think not. I hope your party will make more inwards into capturing Protestant voices but it would help with some honesty that Republicans are open to Protestant concerns and weren't Monsters, that the Imperialist in London were to blame, that we need change and their Protestant input in a new Ireland, that the Southern Partitionists were a disgrace.

Your a learned scribe here on P.ie. Please consider my earlier point to DT on the IRA and Scotland in comparison to the Crown tactics in Ireland. Irish People have been exploited, manipulated and greatly abused. We have come through that with most of our better characteristics still intact, NI is safer than The 26, London or Glasgow. Don't take lectures from the Gombeens or Imperialists and demAnd more vision from our Irish Protestants Brothers. They only have one future and I want it here.
I acknowledge that you are sincere in what you are looking for, however you have to sit back and think about how Irish Republicanism is perceived by the general unionist population in NI. On mentioning Irish Republicanism they're more likely to associate it to 30 years of murder and bombing than to the 18th century united Irishmen.
In my view the issue of a UI is dead for a generation, that gives both sides plenty of time to sell their idea of how to move forward to the wider population, however, to date there has been little sign of such outreach.
 

Mickeymac

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I acknowledge that you are sincere in what you are looking for, however you have to sit back and think about how Irish Republicanism is perceived by the general unionist population in NI. On mentioning Irish Republicanism they're more likely to associate it to 30 years of murder and bombing than to the 18th century united Irishmen.
In my view the issue of a UI is dead for a generation, that gives both sides plenty of time to sell their idea of how to move forward to the wider population, however, to date there has been little sign of such outreach.



How could the good hardworking folk in both communities endure years of the present stalemate that exists in NE Ireland?

Are you proposing that folk put up with fleg disputes, hatefests every summer, coat trailing sectarian marches, riots and mayhem for years to come?
 

devonish

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How could the good hardworking folk in both communities endure years of the present stalemate that exists in NE Ireland?

Are you proposing that folk put up with fleg disputes, hatefests every summer, coat trailing sectarian marches, riots and mayhem for years to come?
It's all relative, where we are is better than where we were 30 years ago. Stalemate is exactly what we have unfortunately, hopefully we will move beyond this sooner or later.
 

Itsalaugh

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I acknowledge that you are sincere in what you are looking for, however you have to sit back and think about how Irish Republicanism is perceived by the general unionist population in NI. On mentioning Irish Republicanism they're more likely to associate it to 30 years of murder and bombing than to the 18th century united Irishmen.
In my view the issue of a UI is dead for a generation, that gives both sides plenty of time to sell their idea of how to move forward to the wider population, however, to date there has been little sign of such outreach.
Well its coming on 20 years now since we knew the war was over. Republicans if you buy into the criminal narrative must have the lowest recidivist rate worldwide beyond anything that was possibly envisioned. Lady Herman's birth place is counted by NISRA to be the second safest/least criminal ward in the North, Yes more peaceful than salubrious Groomsport or the RUC SB stronghold of Donaghdee, which makes this staunch Provo stronghold among the most tranquill places to live globally. So when's the demonisation theme going to end.
Risks of not embracing change now - well militant Republicanism is always ready to erupt. They're pissed Scotland gets a referndum without talk of partition or threats of violence, that FG is inviting the Queen to the GPO in 2016, that Ireland is still divided in 2021.
The GFA solidifies sectarian division and Unionist pols continue to use loyalist ghettoes as a bulwark to strike fear into Southerners like Rocky and the Status Quo elements. That sectarianism becomes entrenched and Catholics start buying into Glenshanes poisonous nonsense.
I'd like a visionary to emerge now and transform the agenda instead of reacting to events later.
 

DT123

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Dt123, wait I've got another gem for you. Why didn't the IRA ever bomb Scotland? Answer they're aware of the delicate sectarian situation there and didn't want to forment the same 'divide and rule', Machiavellian, insensitive and downright evil policy the Crown enacted in Ireland. So put that in your smelly pipe you Imperialist apologist for a soon to be defeated extinct empire :)
I'd imagine that they didn't attack Scotland as so many if their supporters lived there and given that they were in a small minority, did not wish to provoke retribution on them.

Well its coming on 20 years now since we knew the war was over. Republicans if you buy into the criminal narrative must have the lowest recidivist rate worldwide beyond anything that was possibly envisioned. Lady Herman's birth place is counted by NISRA to be the second safest/least criminal ward in the North, Yes more peaceful than salubrious Groomsport or the RUC SB stronghold of Donaghdee, which makes this staunch Provo stronghold among the most tranquill places to live globally. So when's the demonisation theme going to end.
Risks of not embracing change now - well militant Republicanism is always ready to erupt. They're pissed Scotland gets a referndum without talk of partition or threats of violence, that FG is inviting the Queen to the GPO in 2016, that Ireland is still divided in 2021.
The GFA solidifies sectarian division and Unionist pols continue to use loyalist ghettoes as a bulwark to strike fear into Southerners like Rocky and the Status Quo elements. That sectarianism becomes entrenched and Catholics start buying into Glenshanes poisonous nonsense.
I'd like a visionary to emerge now and transform the agenda instead of reacting to events later.
Have you any idea how many Protestants the PIRA killed in east Tyrone during the "troubles"?
 

Mickeymac

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I'd imagine that they didn't attack Scotland as so many if their supporters lived there and given that they were in a small minority, did not wish to provoke retribution on them.



Have you any idea how many Protestants the PIRA killed in east Tyrone during the "troubles"?



 


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