Taking advantage of Brexit - let's revisit 'Decentralisation'

Itsalaugh

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Charlie McCreevy attempted in the early naughties to disperse growth to the regions with his audacious 'decentralisation' program. Many senior civil servants were aghast at this idea of forced dispersion to the sticks and the program was greatly diluted.

One of the main obstacles cited against Dublin taking advantage of a bankers flight from London is a dearth of appropriate high-end accommodation. Much of our mid level upwards state functionaries are living in Clontarf,Terenure,Stillorgan etc and if these properties became availabe would command a premium rental price which would provide for a very high maintenance lifestyle in the sticks to compensate for any inconvenience caused by leaving bloated, expensive Dublin.

An initiative such as decentralisation would greatly assist in arresting the decline that many regional centres are continuing to feel with growth c^ntered in a very narrow expanse of the state.
https://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/tactics-without-strategy-decentralisation-and-post-decentralisation/ and
https://www.wort.lu/en/business/relocation-irish-bid-for-brexit-business-hobbled-by-housing-transport-woes-5788e29cac730ff4e7f638c9

There's a very narrow window to act decisively to increase our advantages and win the potential rewards that other European cities are sizing up.
 


Toland

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Charlie McCreevy attempted in the early naughties to disperse growth to the regions with his audacious 'decentralisation' program. Many senior civil servants were aghast at this idea of forced dispersion to the sticks and the program was greatly diluted.

One of the main obstacles cited against Dublin taking advantage of a bankers flight from London is a dearth of appropriate high-end accommodation. Much of our mid level upwards state functionaries are living in Clontarf,Terenure,Stillorgan etc and if these properties became availabe would command a premium rental price which would provide for a very high maintenance lifestyle in the sticks to compensate for any inconvenience caused by leaving bloated, expensive Dublin.

An initiative such as decentralisation would greatly assist in arresting the decline that many regional centres are continuing to feel with growth c^ntered in a very narrow expanse of the state.
https://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/tactics-without-strategy-decentralisation-and-post-decentralisation/ and
https://www.wort.lu/en/business/relocation-irish-bid-for-brexit-business-hobbled-by-housing-transport-woes-5788e29cac730ff4e7f638c9

There's a very narrow window to act decisively to increase our advantages and win the potential rewards that other European cities are sizing up.
McCreevy's decentralization programme was an expensive, populist, irresponsible disaster. Thanks be to jaysus the scheme was diluted: most of what did end up getting implemented had to be reversed.

Your moniker is appropriate to your OP.

Attracting businesses to locations outside Dublin is the trick, not moving civil servants to places they don't want to go, far away from the civil servants they want to talk to and inaccessible to the maximum number of citizens.
 

realistic1

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Charlie McCreevy attempted in the early naughties to disperse growth to the regions with his audacious 'decentralisation' program. Many senior civil servants were aghast at this idea of forced dispersion to the sticks and the program was greatly diluted.

One of the main obstacles cited against Dublin taking advantage of a bankers flight from London is a dearth of appropriate high-end accommodation. Much of our mid level upwards state functionaries are living in Clontarf,Terenure,Stillorgan etc and if these properties became availabe would command a premium rental price which would provide for a very high maintenance lifestyle in the sticks to compensate for any inconvenience caused by leaving bloated, expensive Dublin.

An initiative such as decentralisation would greatly assist in arresting the decline that many regional centres are continuing to feel with growth c^ntered in a very narrow expanse of the state.
https://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/tactics-without-strategy-decentralisation-and-post-decentralisation/ and
https://www.wort.lu/en/business/relocation-irish-bid-for-brexit-business-hobbled-by-housing-transport-woes-5788e29cac730ff4e7f638c9

There's a very narrow window to act decisively to increase our advantages and win the potential rewards that other European cities are sizing up.
Dont worry about the decline of regional centers, as the EU have a great plan for sorting this. e.g. the planting of tens of thousands of migrants into Ireland over the next decade. Maybe we will have some Government jobs moved to these regional towns to help with their transition.
 

Sync

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"Hey JP Morgan! Stop being dummies and considering moving jobs to Dublin, Frankfurt or Paris! I know we've made the entire argument that we've got a capital with infrastructure, a high level of trained professionals from loads of nations and office space but have we shown you Leitrim? Come to Leitrim! As a gift, we'll give you the sack of hammers we've been beating ourselves with to come up with this idea!"
 

Toland

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"Hey JP Morgan! Stop being dummies and considering moving jobs to Dublin, Frankfurt or Paris! I know we've made the entire argument that we've got a capital with infrastructure, a high level of trained professionals from loads of nations and office space but have we shown you Leitrim? Come to Leitrim! As a gift, we'll give you the sack of hammers we've been beating ourselves with to come up with this idea!"
If that's directed at me, I wasn't talking about banking jobs. If it's directed at itsalaugh, his plan is to move civil servants down the road to make room for JP Morgan employees in the leafier parts of Dublin.
 

Sync

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If that's directed at me, I wasn't talking about banking jobs. If it's directed at itsalaugh, his plan is to move civil servants down the road to make room for JP Morgan employees in the leafier parts of Dublin.
It's hard to know what industry that it could be done with. Making an European silicon valley for instance would be attractive if we didn't have the business we do. "We're going to bulldoze Leitrim, build a single campus in it's place for you Analog/Microsoft/Facebook/Google as well as an IT university. We'll knockdown corporation tax as well if you guys agree to build it in partnership with us". That's an argument.

But we already have Analog/Microsoft/etc who have set up in Ireland employing thousands. It's hard to see how setting up a mass campus would proportionally work out to profit us. Similar story for pharmaceuticals.

And you're right, it is of course massively offensive to just treat civil servants like cattle to be moved around the place.
 

Toland

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I always think it's telling who are the posters who rush in to diss.
I'm sorry but the decentralization programme was an expensive, transparently populist stunt. Even in its pruned back form it was an expensive disaster at a time when the Irish government had much more money than sense.

It is emphatically not something to be repeated.
 
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wombat

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Charlie McCreevy attempted in the early naughties to disperse growth to the regions with his audacious 'decentralisation' program. Many senior civil servants were aghast at this idea of forced dispersion to the sticks and the program was greatly diluted. .
The French decentralised departments over time, they announced a dept would move to a town in a number of years which allowed people to transfer to and from that dept. There have been successful decentralisations here as well - Pensions to Sligo. Unfortunately, McCreeveys idea was a govt office at every crossroads, built by the local gombeen and leased to the govt whether it was used or not.
 

Deadlock

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The French decentralised departments over time, they announced a dept would move to a town in a number of years which allowed people to transfer to and from that dept. There have been successful decentralisations here as well - Pensions to Sligo. Unfortunately, McCreeveys idea was a govt office at every crossroads, built by the local gombeen and leased to the govt whether it was used or not.
The French also have meaningful regional and local government structures to support such measures administratively and politically.
 

Toland

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It's hard to know what industry that it could be done with. Making an European silicon valley for instance would be attractive if we didn't have the business we do. "We're going to bulldoze Leitrim, build a single campus in it's place for you Analog/Microsoft/Facebook/Google as well as an IT university. We'll knockdown corporation tax as well if you guys agree to build it in partnership with us". That's an argument.

But we already have Analog/Microsoft/etc who have set up in Ireland employing thousands. It's hard to see how setting up a mass campus would proportionally work out to profit us. Similar story for pharmaceuticals.

And you're right, it is of course massively offensive to just treat civil servants like cattle to be moved around the place.
Of course it's difficult. Otherwise it would have been done a long time ago. But one thing's for sure: McCreevy's cynical exercise in money-is-no-object populist giveaways (and it was by no means his only one) is not an example to follow.
 

Sync

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The French also have meaningful regional and local government structures to support such measures administratively and politically.
Exactly. France is 9 times the size of Ireland, it simply couldn't support a capital where you had all aspects of governance centralised. We absolutely don't have that challenge. We saw this fail less than 20 years ago. Why on earth it needs revisiting now because of Brexit is baffling.
 

wombat

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Decentralisation is a good idea if planned and implemented properly but its worth remembering that there are approx 30,000 civil servants, even if half were moved, its not a huge number if spread thinly.
 

wombat

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Exactly. France is 9 times the size of Ireland, it simply couldn't support a capital where you had all aspects of governance centralised. We absolutely don't have that challenge. We saw this fail less than 20 years ago. Why on earth it needs revisiting now because of Brexit is baffling.
Power in France is very centred on Paris.
 

Toland

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Power in France is very centred on Paris.
This. Paris is the capital of the most centralised country in Europe. There was, and is, plenty of room for decentralisation.

But Ireland is significantly smaller than Catalonia, for example. How much sense does it make for the Catalans to decentralise their regional government structures outside Barcelona. I'm sure Tarragona and Lleida and Girona might be able to provide backroom services for the capital, but how much more than that in a small geographical unit in which all roads lead to Barcelona.
 

benroe

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Only those along the border will be able to take advantage of the inevitable loopholes in new brexit agreements, and the Irish government will no longer have to pay fines levied by the EU for its illegal VRT on the cross border motor trade.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

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this was talked about here last year.

As well as state departments moving out of dublin to free up space a hard border in the irish sea may make rosslaire or cork more important for import and export and have a similar effect on such business.

but would have needed to be building infrastructure outside dublin all ready to be talking about it in a serious manner. Some places in the state aren't expected to get broadband until well into the next decade at the earliest.

And before we blame the state, roads, housing, and such things necessary to pull something like this off are in the realm of private enterprise.
 

Itsalaugh

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I'm sorry but the decentralization programme was an expensive, transparently populist stunt. Even in its pruned back form it was an expensive disaster at a time when the Irish government had much more money than sense.

It is emphatically not something to be repeated.
I'd envisage about half the civil service being transplanted. The obvious towns are Sligo, Castlebar, Tralee, Clonmel, Wexford. Letterkenny is too remote. Ennis and Kilkenny too prosperous. lime%ick and Waterford have enough diversity to take advantage of a growing economy.
I have no connection to any place named here.
 

Mushroom

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I'm sorry but the decentralization programme was an expensive, transparently populist stunt. Even in its pruned back form it was an expensive disaster at a time when the Irish government had much more money than sense.

It is emphatically not something to be repeated.

Maybe the OP has a tasty site to sell somewhere in the Midlands and is missing the halcyon days when the OPW (now part-decentralised to Trim) was obliged to pay top dollar for decentralisation sites all around the country.

(Who can forget the very successful decentralisation of the FAS HQ to somewhere in "Parlon Country"?)
 


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