Taking advantage of Brexit - let's revisit 'Decentralisation'

Schuhart

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It wasn't the strategy. It was that it was a badly implemented strategy.
No, the strategy was the problem. There is no political consensus on what a feasible regional development strategy looks like.
We could start by cutting down the number of local authorities to 6 or 7. That would help consolidate some of the larger settlements like Cork Limerick and Galway.We really should be aiming for a Cork population of 400,000 or so to balance against Dublin.
That would be grand, except when we use terms like "balance against Dublin" I think we're already in the wrong place.

What we need is Cork to be a hub "against" Kerry, Limerick to be a hub "against" Clare, Waterford to be a hub "against" the rest of the South East. That's the actual conflict.
 


DJP

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The FF decentralisation plan created by Charlie McCreevy, but supported by the whole FF-PD Government, was one of the most shameful acts of the Bertie Ahern era. It was not in line with the National Spatial Strategy- and only about rewarding Fianna Fáil Ministers and their constituencies.
 

Schuhart

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Deadlock

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What we need is Cork to be a hub "against" Kerry, Limerick to be a hub "against" Clare, Waterford to be a hub "against" the rest of the South East. That's the actual conflict.
Why so? Forgive an apparently superficial question, but how would a game of such regional checkmates aid balanced national development?
 

Schuhart

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Why so? Forgive an apparently superficial question, but how would a game of such regional checkmates aid balanced national development?
Well, bear in mind I'm using the word "against" to highlight how inappropriate it is.

Because, indeed, Waterford's growth would hardly be "against" Kilkenny. At the same time, what frustrates Waterford's growth is Kilkenny's obstruction.

Your question is better directed to people from Kilkenny, and others who have demonstrated the "narrow mind" that another poster spoke of. I'm not an advocate of this view:

 

Toland

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The FF decentralisation plan created by Charlie McCreevy, but supported by the whole FF-PD Government, was one of the most shameful acts of the Bertie Ahern era. It was not in line with the National Spatial Strategy- and only about rewarding Fianna Fáil Ministers and their constituencies.
It was also hugely expensive, and ultimately an abject failure.
 

Half Nelson

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Well, bear in mind I'm using the word "against" to highlight how inappropriate it is.

Because, indeed, Waterford's growth would hardly be "against" Kilkenny. At the same time, what frustrates Waterford's growth is Kilkenny's obstruction.

Your question is better directed to people from Kilkenny, and others who have demonstrated the "narrow mind" that another poster spoke of. I'm not an advocate of this view:

Because so much of the cake is given to Dublin, the regions are reduced to squabbling over the breadcrumbs, usually along tribal lines.

It's the reason the Cork-Limerick motorway wasn't completed, despite both cities having high-profile politicians.

"Divide and conquer!"
 

wombat

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The problem with decentralisation or any attempt at regional development is it means selecting some towns as winners and others as losers. Do we select Galway or Limerick, Sligo or Letterkenny as major centres for development. We do not live in Canada or even France but you would think our politicians all travelled by pony & trap.
 

wombat

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It's the reason the Cork-Limerick motorway wasn't completed, despite both cities having high-profile politicians.

"Divide and conquer!"
A good theory but it doesn't explain the building of the M9 rather than the M11 which was designated part of the EU road system linking Stranraer - Larne - Rosslare - Le Havre. That was a decision made by the minister for Waterford at the time.
 

Deadlock

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Because so much of the cake is given to Dublin, the regions are reduced to squabbling over the breadcrumbs, usually along tribal lines.

It's the reason the Cork-Limerick motorway wasn't completed, despite both cities having high-profile politicians.

"Divide and conquer!"
In 2017, the national population was estimated at 4.75 million, with rounding. 27% of that figure resided in Co Dublin (1.27 million) and 40% + in the four county Greater Dublin area. It's logical to me with almost 1 person in 2 living within 50km of O'Connell Monument, that's that's where the bulk of the funding ought to go?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Dublin_Area
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin

It seems to me that there are several possible models for regional development. The one we seem to be in danger of careering towards is Singapore, where 90% of the national population live in the single viable urban area. If we reject this model - it may be time to consider enforcing a moratorium on further development in Greater Dublin, and use of incentives or tax breaks to regional cities - or tax penalties on further GDA development to incentivise this redistribution.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore
 
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ON THE ONE ROAD

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Ireland is a small country, but there are too many Dublin-based narrow minds intent on making it even smaller.

We should, by now, have a population of 8million plus and a transport infrastructure that's not from the seventies.
Agree with the first part of your post but not sure why you expect better regional development. It is clearly not a priority some places have to elect tds to fix the roads and a lot begrudge that
 

gatsbygirl20

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Decentralisation is a good idea if planned and implemented properly but its worth remembering that there are approx 30,000 civil servants, even if half were moved, its not a huge number if spread thinly.
You can decentralise certain low level functions no problem--drivers' licences, etc

But McGreevy did not think this through. He wanted to move, say, the Dept of the Marine to Clonakilty, and sell off the building in Leeson St, but fishermen from Donegal found it hard enough getting to Dublin, never mind Clonakilty

Also with half the Marine in Clonakilty and the other half in Dublin, wires got crossed and it was chaotic

Even in this age of technology, face-to-face meetings are important. The main offices where top executives work, need to be located close to each other

That place, as far as the civil service is concerned, need not be Dublin. It could be Galway, for instance. Lots of countries have a separate administrative capital.

But the leading government departments at decision making level, all need to be located in the same place ideally
 

Schuhart

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Because so much of the cake is given to Dublin, the regions are reduced to squabbling over the breadcrumbs, usually along tribal lines.

It's the reason the Cork-Limerick motorway wasn't completed, despite both cities having high-profile politicians.

"Divide and conquer!"
This is classic nonsense. Illustrate the fact that Kilkenny obstructs regional development, and receive a response that avoids discussion of that real issue.

Dublin isn't given any cake. It makes cake. The issue is that we'd do better as a country if we'd a couple more cake generating locations.

No need to stop anyone making cake to achieve this. Dublin can be let produce all the cherry logs and tiramisu that it can.

But Kilkenny could stop obstructing Waterford. It would actually cost them nothing.
 

Half Nelson

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This is classic nonsense. Illustrate the fact that Kilkenny obstructs regional development, and receive a response that avoids discussion of that real issue.

Dublin isn't given any cake. It makes cake. The issue is that we'd do better as a country if we'd a couple more cake generating locations.

No need to stop anyone making cake to achieve this. Dublin can be let produce all the cherry logs and tiramisu that it can.

But Kilkenny could stop obstructing Waterford. It would actually cost them nothing.
Nobody cares about yere petty squabbles with the neighbours; it's good, old-fashioned tribalism - peasants rowing over pickings from the rich man's table.

The antidote is education and development... which is obstructed by... good, old-fashioned tribalism.
 

Half Nelson

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Agree with the first part of your post but not sure why you expect better regional development. It is clearly not a priority some places have to elect tds to fix the roads and a lot begrudge that
Misplaced loyalties - the curse of the downtrodden. Too many voters treat an an election like a football match, hoping to bask in the imagined glory of their team winning.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

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This is classic nonsense. Illustrate the fact that Kilkenny obstructs regional development, and receive a response that avoids discussion of that real issue.

Dublin isn't given any cake. It makes cake. The issue is that we'd do better as a country if we'd a couple more cake generating locations.

No need to stop anyone making cake to achieve this. Dublin can be let produce all the cherry logs and tiramisu that it can.

But Kilkenny could stop obstructing Waterford. It would actually cost them nothing.
What does Dublin make? the traditional point of Dublin was to accumulate the things produced here for distribution to Britain. Various administration functions and Guinness. How much of that has changed in a century. How much of that process can or needs to continue post Brexit.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

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Misplaced loyalties - the curse of the downtrodden. Too many voters treat an an election like a football match, hoping to bask in the imagined glory of their team winning.

Or banks profits are invested quicker in the city of London than in the state. The market is conservative and shows no desire to diversify and the the dominant thinking is that the state should not interfere to much in the market. Though fdi and the state facilitating locations around the jurisdiction is acceptable.
 

wombat

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Mushroom

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Too many voters treat an an election like a football match, hoping to bask in the imagined glory of their team winning.

Actually, most of the pleasure comes from seeing sitting Deputies losing their seats! It's a great bloodsport.
 

Lord Talbot

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Charlie McCreevy attempted in the early naughties to disperse growth to the regions with his audacious 'decentralisation' program. Many senior civil servants were aghast at this idea of forced dispersion to the sticks and the program was greatly diluted.

One of the main obstacles cited against Dublin taking advantage of a bankers flight from London is a dearth of appropriate high-end accommodation. Much of our mid level upwards state functionaries are living in Clontarf,Terenure,Stillorgan etc and if these properties became availabe would command a premium rental price which would provide for a very high maintenance lifestyle in the sticks to compensate for any inconvenience caused by leaving bloated, expensive Dublin.

An initiative such as decentralisation would greatly assist in arresting the decline that many regional centres are continuing to feel with growth c^ntered in a very narrow expanse of the state.
https://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/tactics-without-strategy-decentralisation-and-post-decentralisation/ and
https://www.wort.lu/en/business/relocation-irish-bid-for-brexit-business-hobbled-by-housing-transport-woes-5788e29cac730ff4e7f638c9

There's a very narrow window to act decisively to increase our advantages and win the potential rewards that other European cities are sizing up.
No. It wasn't an "audacious" idea, it was a f***ing moronic idea.

Dublin isn't bloated, its a small city with sh*t transport and a crap planning system.

Dublin is only bloated to pig ignorant village idiots who've never been outside their town of 10 families.

Idiot.
 


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