Taking Down Statues in Ireland

Lumpy Talbot

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It has been interesting to watch the issue of statues and monuments to colonialists and slave-owners expand into the takedown of many statues in the US and not restricted to those identified as colonisers and wealthy slave traders.

The alarmed neocons of the world splutter that the mob is making a mistake in taking down statues which have nothing to do historically with either slavery or colonialism. I think that could be a mis-reading of what is happening.

Suppose this is a spontaneous protest which has arisen out of the civil rights protests in the US. It would explain why lots of statues per se are being targeted and taken down in an act of literal social iconoclasm.

So we made a decent beginning with Nelson's Pillar. Unfortunately the invaders and colonists of the mind, the Catholic Church, has its iconry dotted all over the island in public spaces, outdoors and indoors in public buildings, schools, hospitals and in some cases even dominating the skyline.

Could the young people of Ireland be blamed for removing all such iconry? I think there is a case. The Catholic Church and its symbols are not native to the island, it is a foreign religious cult. It's Goldman Sachs approach to the amassing of wealth out of what was a superstitious peasantry was both corporate and highly efficient for something like 14 centuries. The other invaders managed about 800.

I'm sure I need hardly remind anyone here of the predatory nature of that psychological coloniser, so recently covered at last in the Irish media, its debts still owed contemptuously to the state, and still presuming to lecture a shrinking audience on ethics despite its unwillingness to separate itself from degeneracy and criminality in its ranks.

If you don't think there should be statues and iconry celebrating the icons of an invader in Ireland why should the icons of the Catholic Church be given a pass?
 


Lumpy Talbot

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Good point. Removal of religious iconry whether catholic or protestant is something that would benefit our island in many contemporary ways as well as deal with a past historical colonisation.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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I hadn't considered the iconry of division in Northern Ireland which is a bit remiss. Then again the sensible people on both sides of the community in Ireland would not be slow to recognise the provocative nature of sectarian pseudo-religious iconry.

If there is one population in the world that should be aware of the dangers of religious division and symbolism it should be the people of Northern Ireland. Both catholic and protestant 'affiliated' religious symbols and iconry could well do with being permanently parked by both sides and it would do little harm and possibly a lot of good.
 

shutuplaura

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What if people don't want their local Marian shrine removed? It should be consensual. If people want some shrine, or even a statue removed, then fine by me. If not, then leave well alone. unless of course a statue is outrageously offensive. The only one I can think of though is the Sean Russell one, which really offends some people. I personally would leave that though, but if people really want it removed, then what is the point of keeping it.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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It would be better to vote on it, I agree. But then it would not be the worst thing in the world were these things removed or placed in a more appropriate setting, like inside a church for example, where I gather there is increasing space to play with.

And if young people in Ireland were to decide we are better off without these things then I would have no objection and would support removal.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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If you want a gentler solution then remove any individual church's icons and let everyone in the community enjoy the amenity of a grotto without the 'ownership' stamp of one religion being involved.

Maurice Colgan could do wonders with a bit of Grotto Guerilla Gardening.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Mm. All statues from 'marian' grottoes to be picked up and delivered back to the nearest church grounds. In West Cork I'd suggest that said statues be placed under house arrest and have an ankle bracelet which tracks them if they attempt a rave anywhere near Ballinspittle, for example.
 

Catapulta

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Spot on, Lumpy.

I'm in full agreement.

Is that it?:p

Was a time the streets would have been thronged with crowds watching the Loyal Sons of Ulster marching towards their Destiny

Now the look like ol Dinosaurs....

Marching towards Oblivion....
 

silverharp

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Good point. Removal of religious iconry whether catholic or protestant is something that would benefit our island in many contemporary ways as well as deal with a past historical colonisation.
I cant see it changing the price of quinoa in D4. The purpose would just be to irritate people for no benefit.
 

McSlaggart

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It has been interesting to watch the issue of statues and monuments to colonialists and slave-owners expand into the takedown of many statues in the US and not restricted to those identified as colonisers and wealthy slave traders.

The alarmed neocons of the world splutter that the mob is making a mistake in taking down statues which have nothing to do historically with either slavery or colonialism. I think that could be a mis-reading of what is happening.
I remember being in Eastern Europe after the countries had taken back control from the Russians and the amount of empty spaces in which they locals had taken down statues was remarkable.

For unionists a lot of republican statues are unacceptable. The question is do we keep statues even though a section of the population do not like them? The Romans used to only change the head of the statues of the emperor when a new one took office. This could be a simple solution to the issue and have the one statue represent a range of people :)
 

shutuplaura

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If you want a gentler solution then remove any individual church's icons and let everyone in the community enjoy the amenity of a grotto without the 'ownership' stamp of one religion being involved.

Maurice Colgan could do wonders with a bit of Grotto Guerilla Gardening.
And should residents in say a housing estate with a shrine be consulted or would you like to see this just happen?

This smacks of trying to sanitize the past to make up for some of our failings today. It's tokenistic and pointless tbh. They are a quirky part if Irish street scapes.

How much of the land given over to religious shrines is public. How much is suitable for conversion into a community garden. And is there even a demand for such things in areas with surplus grottos.

Sure look at me, in favour of keeping the things and I haven't been in a church for an age!
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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You'll like this sermon here, Lumpy. The pastor smashes a Marian Statue.

If you don't know your way round the Bible start at seven minutes in.

Roman Catholics have absolutely no idea as to how offensive these statues are to Bible-believing Christians.

You’ll like this here Grouser. The zealots destroy Buddha with high explosives.

Moderate people have no idea how offensive statues are to extremists.

 

Supra

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If there were statues of criminal offenders then I'd be all for it. I like the odd Madonna here and there though. I think it's a positive message you can like without the automatic link to the catholic church. The crucifix too is an international icon with many interpretations. It's not as if they are statues of evil priests that are used to cleanse that priests past.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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Statues in public place are there for the purpose of promulgating a certain set of values and ideas. They're religious advertising,

As well as hating Marian statues Pastor Gino Jennings believes that gays are an “abomination” and that women who use lipstick or wear wigs are “hoes”. Do you agree with him?
 


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