Taoiseach visits our lads in the EU Army, somewhere in Africa


Sync

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Liar

UN Security Council
Resolution 2071

United Nations Security Council Resolution 2071 was unanimously adopted on 12 October 2012.[1] It related to the 2012 Northern Mali conflict and mandated that an actionable plan for military intervention be made by ECOWAS and the African Union within 45 days

or have we joined the Economic Union of West Africa too ? :roll:
.....read the resolution. Or: Read what you pasted. It mandates that a plan for intervention be made by ECOWAS and the AU. Not that they were the only ones allowed to carry out intervention as part of that plan. The EU is mentioned in the resolution very clearly.

Why do you do this? I mean it's another thread in itself really, but you've chosen not to read what you've pasted, or the resolution itself. I'm fascinated by that lack of thinking.
 

GDPR

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First thing to notice, this is NOT a UN blue helmet mission, of the kind Irish troops have been involved in for decades.
It is a training mission for the fledgling EU army which is in its training phase, currently known as EUTM Mali.
The current commander is Brig. General Mirow of the Wehrmacht (Germany), who recently took over from Brig. General Guibert (France)
The Wehrmacht? You realize it's 2019 and not 1940, right?
 

hiding behind a poster

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Our A&Es are like 3rd world counties. don't think so. Staff in 3rd world counties can only dream of the money our "health professionals get away with.
Anyone who says our health service is "third world" has clearly never been in the Third World.
 

Dame_Enda

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I support this mission. There is much a prosperous democracy can do to teach the locals about how to stabilise their political, security and economic environment.
 

Clanrickard

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Taoiseach begins African trip with Mali engagements | Irish Examiner


Seeing as we joined the EU defense pact called PESCO around this time last year (somewhat secretly, it has to be said) our Leader has now deemed it appropriate to visit our lads abroad.

First thing to notice, this is NOT a UN blue helmet mission, of the kind Irish troops have been involved in for decades.
It is a training mission for the fledgling EU army which is in its training phase, currently known as EUTM Mali.
The current commander is Brig. General Mirow of the Wehrmacht (Germany), who recently took over from Brig. General Guibert (France)

This whole region consists of former French colonies, which they never quite let go of entirely.
French troops have been operating here for decades, engaging in anti terrorist operations, regime change, or whatever France thought was necessary at any given time.
The current French operation is called Operation Barkhane. It covers Mali as well as neighbouring Chad and Niger. So depending on whether they are wearing a Barkhane badge, or a EUTM badge, the French soldiers could be on either mission. Or perhaps both, who knows?
Anyway, maintaining control over the destiny of former colonies is hard and dangerous work, so they are very glad of our assistance.

Next stop on Leo's January Sunshine trip is Ethiopia, where we fund a portion of the social welfare and health systems.
If he is lucky, the Ethiopians might honour our Taoiseach with a fly-by of their 14 state of the art Sukhoi SU-27 jet fighters. Russia sells these for around 30-40 million dollars apiece, depending on the spec (it goes without saying any self respecting fly-boy would require leather seats)

As for me, well I'm not going anywhere, but I'll be eating extra mandarins this month.
For the extra vitamin C.
I know very well that the hospital A&Es are always as bad as any third world country during the month of January, so I can't allow myself to get any way sick at this time of year.
Great to see. Roll on an EU army of which we will all be proud.
 

Sync

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I support this mission. There is much a prosperous democracy can do to teach the locals about how to stabilise their political, security and economic environment.
Exactly. Aside from "It's the right thing to do", less strife in Africa reduces the amounts of boats coming into Italy and Greece, results in increased economic prosperity which represents a better trade partner for Europe. It's massively in our collective interest for them to do well.
 

Skin the Goat

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anyone who thinks our health system is working is a stupid stupid blueshirt
If this represents what passes for reasoned mature debate, then - sadly - it would appear that our education system is coming up short as well. :-(
 

TweetyBird

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When the US organises a mission to "restore order" (regime change) to places like Iraq or Afghanistan it will usually invite along a few others to give it the impression of an "international coalition". Georgia usually volunteers for these, because it is desperate to move away from the Russian sphere of influence and into the EU and Nato sphere. Also its military is funded by the US.
So just because the likes of Georgia and Albania were invited along does not make this an international coalition.

This is a mission conceived in Brussels, at the behest of the French, which follows along similar lines to what the French army has been doing solo in the region for many decades. Controlling which warlords are in power in the French sphere of influence.
It is NOT a UN blue helmet peacekeeping mission, of the type Irish troops used to get involved in, when we were a neutral country.
These activities in the French controlled Sahel region are not any of our business.
If they were engaging in conflict against whatever enemies of the Mali government, then I'd absolutely agree, breach of neutrality and all that. They are not, they are there solely to train soldiers of the Mali government along with 21 other countries under the EU mission. And have been doing do since before Pesco. If you think they shouldn't be doing that either, that's fine as your opinion.
 

recedite

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If they were engaging in conflict against whatever enemies of the Mali government, then I'd absolutely agree, breach of neutrality and all that. They are not, they are there solely to train soldiers of the Mali government along with 21 other countries under the EU mission. And have been doing do since before Pesco. If you think they shouldn't be doing that either, that's fine as your opinion.
Leo is talking about sending the Rangers in next. Would you be against them engaging in operations?
It seems very like how the US operates in Syria. Initially send in military "advisors" and also provide arms and funding to your preferred side in a conflict. Then send in the special forces to direct operations. Then let the special forces lead the operations.

Its very easy to get bogged down in this kind of warfare. And very hard to exit.
Just because the French have been at it for decades does not mean we should get involved.

The only reason our guys are there is because this EUTM is an early trial of an EU army, organised by Brussels, and Leo is keen to show our euro credentials by not missing out.

I'm not buying any of this BS that it provides security for Europe, or stops African migrants from going to Europe.
If we wanted to protect Europe's borders we would patrol the Med and cooperate more with the Libyans, building up their coastguard and army. That's what Italy is focused on. It was mainly the French and the Americans who messed up Libya.

Mali, Chad and Niger are very far away, and we should not become embroiled in their religious/tribal conflicts.
The EU should be telling the French to pull out, instead of reinforcing them with our troops.
 

Clanrickard

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Mali, Chad and Niger are very far away, and we should not become embroiled in their religious/tribal conflicts.
The EU should be telling the French to pull out, instead of reinforcing them with our troops.
Have you read the posts on this thread? Try again.
 

recedite

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Have you read the posts on this thread? Try again.
I saw your post, yes...
Great to see. Roll on an EU army of which we will all be proud.
People like yourself are always in favour of more EU, more federalism, more globalisation, more multiculturalism, more open borders, more migrants etc..

It all sounds so virtuous. But the flip side of it is more military interventionism.
Why not just accept that the people who live in these foreign countries are grown-ups?
Let them choose their own form of government. If that involves Sharia Law, so be it.
You seem to believe that they need whitey to guide them. That is borderline racist.

You would brand somebody like Donald trump as a "populist", but populists don't usually start wars. Isn't he the first US president in a long time not to start a war?

Mali has its own unique and ancient culture, going back to its heydey when Timbuktu was a world renowned trading centre.
Like Iraq, its people already had their own long history and their own traditions. Their own ways of doing things.

I find the arrogance of people like Varadkar and Macron annoying.
This idea that these people need
(a) More arms and more military training.
(b) Advice and governance from whitey.
(c) To act and dress and be more like us.
(d) To come and live with us. In the poorer suburbs. On social welfare.
 

Tacitus

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Why not just accept that the people who live in these foreign countries are grown-ups?
Let them choose their own form of government. If that involves Sharia Law, so be it.
Aside from the fact that those people rarely get to "choose" their leader/government (it is not like the Syrians voted for an Assad dynasty, they just took power via a coup), we should also not be blind towards the consequences of those regimes. They create political refugees, instability in the region and the potential for terrorist organizations to threaten the West.

You seem to believe that they need whitey to guide them. That is borderline racist.
Hardly. It is not secret that the Mali government is highly inefficient and corrupt, which was the main reason why the rebells managed to take the North relatively easy. Those issues along with military inefficiency needed to be adressed, and the Europeans are the ones willing and capable to help. It would be nice if the other Africans had the ressources and expertise to do so, but alas they do not.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Not sure it is a good idea to send a politician who is also a medical doctor out there. 'While you are here, Taoiseach, I'm sure I've a bit of whiplash from the landing in the airplane and in fairness should I be carrying this rifle around and the big bag an' all what with the exacerbation of the injury- and then there's Brian here that hasn't a wink of sleep with the PTSD from being away from Moneygall...'
 

Connollyist a/c no.2

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The myth of Irish neutrality is clear to all who are knowledgeable and objective. Even the superficial neutrality we have now is in danger and this shows it. Fine Gael pays hypocritical homage to Michael Collins who explicitly said an Irish Army should not be used for imperialist purposes.

" our army will only exist for the defence of our liberties, and of our people in the exercise of their liberties. An Irish army can never be used for the ignoble purpose of invasion, subjugation, and exploitation." - Michael Collins
 

Sweet Darling

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The myth of Irish neutrality is clear to all who are knowledgeable and objective. Even the superficial neutrality we have now is in danger and this shows it. Fine Gael pays hypocritical homage to Michael Collins who explicitly said an Irish Army should not be used for imperialist purposes.

" our army will only exist for the defence of our liberties, and of our people in the exercise of their liberties. An Irish army can never be used for the ignoble purpose of invasion, subjugation, and exploitation." - Michael Collins
Irish "neutrality" has always being "Superficial" it's the way we want it, gives us a flexibility we may need at some point in time.
And as the Irish people operate an open economy needing to export 90% of what we produce. It is in our interest to see that the world is stable. Ireland is now in 2019. Don't worry nobody is spinning in their graves, They died 100 years ago.
 
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