Tasc-cuts are too much to bear!

B

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Tasc: Economy cannot cope with multibillion-euro cuts | Breaking News - eircom.net

At a guess I suspect that this interest group is composed substantially or exclusively of those well-heeled types employed in the public sector. Let me think-they want cuts for others but not for the higher paid types employed across public sector (other than doctors!) and the vaste swathes of quangoland.
How can one come to any other conclusion as their wish-list does not appear to identify the cutting of a single item of wasteful expenditure or duplication across the wider public service that might affect themselves and those they claim to represent.
If they want salaries of consultant doctors cut why not look at unversity professors or lecturers? Oops Tasc has lots of university types!!!

So let us continue with farcical duplication of services across all the local authorities throughout the state, masssive duplication of third level courses at third level, the disgrace that is FAS, disgrace of the thousands of overpaid HSE managers while no unit for cystic fibrosis, the multitude of VEC, the almost endless number of quangos, slush funds for social partners, and bodies that nobody has ever heard of-each with their own CEO, director of IT ,HR director, director of this or that etc etc all of which makes the adminstration of the Greater Manchester (with same population) area look like a freak.

All this waste will continue while the carers, blind, elderly requiring home helps will be squeezed so that middle class PS can pretend that they are concerned about the unemployed.
 


Watcher2

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Tasc: Economy cannot cope with multibillion-euro cuts | Breaking News - eircom.net

At a guess I suspect that this interest group is composed substantially or exclusively of those well-heeled types employed in the public sector. Let me think-they want cuts for others but not for the higher paid types employed across public sector (other than doctors!) and the vaste swathes of quangoland.
How can one come to any other conclusion as their wish-list does not appear to identify the cutting of a single item of wasteful expenditure or duplication across the wider public service that might affect themselves and those they claim to represent.
If they want salaries of consultant doctors cut why not look at unversity professors or lecturers? Oops Tasc has lots of university types!!!

So let us continue with farcical duplication of services across all the local authorities throughout the state, masssive duplication of third level courses at third level, the disgrace that is FAS, disgrace of the thousands of overpaid HSE managers while no unit for cystic fibrosis, the multitude of VEC, the almost endless number of quangos, slush funds for social partners, and bodies that nobody has ever heard of-each with their own CEO, director of IT ,HR director, director of this or that etc etc all of which makes the adminstration of the Greater Manchester (with same population) area look like a freak.

All this waste will continue while the carers, blind, elderly requiring home helps will be squeezed so that middle class PS can pretend that they are concerned about the unemployed.
Here you go, read all about them. I didn't get very far:

TASC website
 

ne0ica

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I like how the public sector unions and Tasc want us to raid the pension reserve to pay their salaries. And just how to they expect us to pay their exhoberabt salaries.
 

ne0ica

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I just checked the the 6 page list of 'economists' who contribute to their policies. Most are lectures in Geography, Sociology and Journalism. I only counted 2 or 3 who are actual economists.
 

anlkestony

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Tasc can go in any cuts in the national interest of course. All these quangos are justifying their existence.
 

gijoe

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Who do they expect to lend to Ireland and at what interest rate if we do not make cuts? Will somebody in the media pose that question to them?
 

cyberianpan

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Tasc is stashed full of loonynomicists, people of little academic standing by comparison to Irish peers (just check their IDEAs rankings) - and this study didn't do any serious quantitative econometric research, as hard sum are beyond the fringe loonies

cYp
 

jane5

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Hallelujah! Somebody, somewhere, finally understands the multiplier effect!!!!

Economy 'can't cope' with multibillion spending cuts - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

I have been saying this for MONTHS now, literally since the last Budget, usually followed by a big DUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!!!

Takey the money out of the economy makey the economy go boom! Nobody spendy what little money they left with. Then everybody shut their shops/businesses and needy the welfare. Nobody pay the bankses anything so they in trouble. So economy go boom.

Most people are so freaking stupid they keep insisting like anencephalic cretins that we "have to balance the books" by cutting everyone's pay and taxing them. It's not linear. It's a circle. Finally, though, I have hope, as someone gets it. Please let Lenny read this. Or really, anything to do with economics.
 

ballot stuffer

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Well if you rule out spending cuts for this reason and we are tapped out credit wise how do you propose we bridge the deficit through taxation?
 

Panopticon

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Economy 'can't cope' with multibillion spending cuts - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

I have been saying this for MONTHS now, literally since the last Budget, usually followed by a big DUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!!!

Takey the money out of the economy makey the economy go boom! Nobody spendy what little money they left with. Then everybody shut their shops/businesses and needy the welfare. Nobody pay the bankses anything so they in trouble. So economy go boom.

Most people are so freaking stupid they keep insisting like anencephalic cretins that we "have to balance the books" by cutting everyone's pay and taxing them. It's not linear. It's a circle. Finally, though, I have hope, as someone gets it. Please let Lenny read this. Or really, anything to do with economics.
There isn't much of a multiplier effect in Ireland, due to:
- our dependence on exports for income;
- our dependence on imports for consumption;
- our dependence on FDI, and
- our common monetary policy with Germany.

I doubt the multiplier is much over 1 tbh. People losing jobs due to spending cuts isn't the multiplier, it's just what we economists would call a first-order effect. The multiplier is about second-order effects, and they are weak in Ireland, because we make money from selling pharmaceuticals and spend it on EU food and American iPods.

Besides, it's Tasc. They have never published a single line that didn't suit Labour and the public sector. So no surprise.
 

j26

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Eh,

Isn't the multiplier effect negligible in Ireland due to our very small, very open economy?
 

GJG

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Eh,

Isn't the multiplier effect negligible in Ireland due to our very small, very open economy?
Correct. With a couple of exceptions.

Property owners, builders, publicans, the legal profession and the public service do not have their services traded internationally to a significant degree. Let's see who sticks up for who.
 

Panopticon

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For non-economists: Just to clarify what we mean by the multiplier. The easiest way to think about it is: if the government spends $1 more today, how much more economic activity in total will result? Disregard the need to finance the debt. The multiplier is the amount of dollars of extra activity.

e.g. if I get that dollar, I might spend some of it on domestic goods, and generate jobs for other people in my country. Then they might spend some of that on domestic goods, and so on in a repeating, diminishing cycle.

Keynesians tend to believe that the multiplier is high. I believe it is low and close to one. The new classical economists contend that debt financing is too important to ignore, and it reduces the multiplier to 1, because people know that they have to repay the debt eventually; so-called "Ricardian equivalence", not that Ricardo had anything to do with it.
 

dalywise

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Multiplier is probably higher for people on welfare beacsue they don't spend it on cars and foreign holidays etc. The car subsidy was a complete farce - created hundreds of jobs no doubt in Germany and France and zilch here. But of course it made a few well connected FF car-dealers very happy and sure, that's all that matters.
 

firefly123

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Multiplier is probably higher for people on welfare beacsue they don't spend it on cars and foreign holidays etc. The car subsidy was a complete farce - created hundreds of jobs no doubt in Germany and France and zilch here. But of course it made a few well connected FF car-dealers very happy and sure, that's all that matters.
Not to mention Bill Cullen. He's an entrepenuer you know! He apparently sells cars! Wow! Genius! Penny apples! You're Fired! Work for nothing! Etc
 

quackquack

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20 Billion hole a year

Our spending pattern:


Suggestions please...

You wouldn't happen to work in one of those big pie pieces by any chance?

While you're off opening french bank accounts (alluded to in a previous post) , keep in mind that doing so has the same impact as the multiplier effect you mention in this case.
 

bormotello

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Typical PS unions rubbish.
Increasing taxes will have exactly the same effect as cuts on welfare and PS pay.
 

jane5

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Well, clearly there are still a lot out there who are continuing to have difficulty.

Catchphrases like "small open economy" are meaningless. Think simply, and logically.

If you take 300 euro away from a person making 2000 euro a month, what happens?

They aren't buying cars, or loads of imported luxury goods, with their 2000/month.

They're spending this daily, on food from shops, lunches if working, rent/mortgage to landlord/bank, clothes from shops, transport, maybe a pint or two at the weekend, paying the local publican.

Now suddenly they have a lot less money, but bills haven't gone down, because they're not.

They no longer buy a coffee on the way to work. They pack a lunch. They walk to work. They don't buy clothes, they keep wearing the old ones. They don't buy the paper. They skip the pints at the local. Everything on essentials and all other spending gets jettisoned.

So the food shops, which may stock imports but employ people living in Ireland that would otherwise be on welfare, lose some business.

The local pub loses business.

The coffee stand/shop on the way to work loses business.

The clothes retailers and sundry items retailers lose business.

The buses collect less fare.

Now since this cut in disposable income has happened to whatever, say 2 million people, all businesses located in Ireland, employing Irish residents that are otherwise entitled to welfare payments from the State, lose profits on a large scale.

What happens when businesses lose profits? They shed staff, who then go on welfare. They close down, and quit paying utilities, rent, taxes, and the State's intake of money decreases even as more people go on welfare as more businesses close.

EXACTLY what has happened already.

What would I do to decrease the deficit?

The Anglo problem has to be addressed. Whether by complete refinancing of all money owed, burning some bondholders, or shutting the goddamn thing down, it is a vampire on the State's finances at present.

Drastic reform of quangos.

Immediate culling of half of all politicians and elimination of virtually all but very necessary expenses for the ones remaining, with only one salary or pension collected by any one TD at any one time.

Decrease corpo tax further, acting as a further incentive for businesses to relocate here.

State costs slashed and burned. The only high and rising costs at the moment are State associated.

Abolish all landlord tax reliefs. Abolish all second home related tax reliefs. Mortgage interest relief to be given only to persons on less than 100k a year. Everyone else pony up.

That's a start, off the top of my head.
 

jane5

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You do understand that the deficit BECOMES less if the State takes in more tax from businesses that are doing well due to domestic demand, right?

You do understand that the deficit becomes less if more people are employed in successful businesses, paying tax and STAYING OFF WELFARE, right?
 

jane5

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Bormotello, not sure what you mean by PS unions rubbish, but yes, you are correct, cuts in SW and PS pay WILL have the same effect as increase in taxation. Both will depress everyday domestic demand for goods and services in Ireland, which will depress the economy further. You are one of the few that get it.
 


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