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Tax changes in budget 11


Bridget558

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Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
297
What tax changes should we expect in the budget ? There has been alot of talk about low pay workers paying income tax what rate do you think they might end up paying? What about the income levys ? Aren't most low pay workers paying the 2 percent levy ?
 

asset test

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Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
14,812
This is my take -

The tax credit for PAYE will be slashed, thus bringing the low paid into the tax net, at the same rate that the rest of us pay. Cutting the credit will affect all of us though.

The low rate might stay unchanged, but the top rate of 41% might increase to 43 or 44.

I would like to see a 3rd rate of tax for higher earners, but I'm not sure that will happen this year. Maybe phased in.

A universal charge to replace all the levies and PRSI - about 8%.

A levy on PS pensioners. I think this is prohibited in the CPA, but times are hard, and there is a clause in there to allow this.

Tobacco will be hammered, although the counter measures against smuggling, which is rife must be beefed up.

Excise duties in general to rise. Fuel, alcohol, etc.

Inheritance Taxes - slash the tax free amount, and increase the rate to 30%

CGT increase the rate to 30%. Doesn't matter, nothing is selling, but when things get better people might have to sell to survive, so will take the hit.

CT, unchanged or reduced by .5%

A levy on SW payments for employment initiatives.

VAT, well, I think the 0% rate might be increased for certain things. They might hope no one will notice that, although the shoes thing years ago might frighten them off.

I think the slash and burn cuts might be a bit worse than the tax changes, although they will be bad enough.
 

frequency

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Sep 9, 2005
Messages
943
The low rate might stay unchanged, but the top rate of 41% might increase to 43 or 44.
The financial problems will not be solved until the low rate is significantly increased. The high rate can remain - it's not much different to Germany, Netherlands , etc., . What needs to come in is a new 3rd rate of tax at a lower income threshold. Assuming of course people want a hospital, school or if they prefer a new mobile phone and to be remain with 3rd world services.


I would like to see a 3rd rate of tax for higher earners, but I'm not sure that will happen this year. Maybe phased in.
The modern Irish definition of a high earner is anyone who earns 20% more than you. It's also known as a induces-a-chip-on-the-shoulder salary.

A universal charge to replace all the levies and PRSI - about 8%.
That would be great! When I left the HSE (and the country) my last round of levies (on top of PAYE) was 6.5% PRSI, 4% income levy, 8.5% pension levy, and whatever the health levy is.


A levy on PS pensioners. I think this is prohibited in the CPA, but times are hard, and there is a clause in there to allow this.
New taxes need to be focussed on lower income earners from the ages of ~20-45. They are the primary workers in any economy and consitute the largest portion of workers. If they all share a little bit of the brunt, it's much more sustainable - and SUSTAINABLE is the key. Grabbing cash from people for a few years does not solve the social problem of 50% of the country paying nothing for services but at the same time feeling entitled to them.

Tobacco will be hammered, although the counter measures against smuggling, which is rife must be beefed up.

Excise duties in general to rise. Fuel, alcohol, etc.
Makes no sense at all. More taxes on tobacco will reduce the customs taxes take with expanding blackmarket - that is what happens in the real world and not the soviet union. Taxing fuel will kill whatever economy is left; growth is inextricably linked to fuel costs. Margins are already tight.

Inheritance Taxes - slash the tax free amount, and increase the rate to 30%
This will see anyone with actual wealth moved residency - rich older people.

CGT increase the rate to 30%. Doesn't matter, nothing is selling, but when things get better people might have to sell to survive, so will take the hit.
Tax increases, tax increases eh? That is your best solution? There is no money being generated, so tax must drop drop drop! Tax increases is short term left wing thinking, eventually driving any economy, social flexibility out of the country for good. Who's piggy bank will you raid in a year? in two years? still pretending there will be a magical recovery?

CT, unchanged or reduced by .5%
Makes not a bit of difference.
 

daveL

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Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,593
Hmmm...

I'd introduce water charges and property tax

Increase DIRT and other like focused standing wealth charges. I'd also increase our corporation tax and tidy up our tax legislation which allows multinationals use Ireland for tax avoidance.

I'd remove all tax credits. All of them. Pay tax from your first buck.

But then I'd have three income tax rates of about 10%, 25% and 40%

40% would only impact those on salaries of 75k or over

Everyone should pay tax. Nobody is too poor to pay tax. But those who have more should pay more. Not those who have more pay for everything.

We all live in this state. Nobody should get a free ride.

13 years of FF has given us an entitlement culture where people believe that someone else is responsible for paying their costs of living in Ireland.

That's where the unfairness lies in Ireland.
 
Last edited:

Bridget558

Active member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
297
This is my take -

The tax credit for PAYE will be slashed, thus bringing the low paid into the tax net, at the same rate that the rest of us pay. Cutting the credit will affect all of us though.

The low rate might stay unchanged, but the top rate of 41% might increase to 43 or 44.

I would like to see a 3rd rate of tax for higher earners, but I'm not sure that will happen this year. Maybe phased in.

A universal charge to replace all the levies and PRSI - about 8%.

A levy on PS pensioners. I think this is prohibited in the CPA, but times are hard, and there is a clause in there to allow this.

Tobacco will be hammered, although the counter measures against smuggling, which is rife must be beefed up.

Excise duties in general to rise. Fuel, alcohol, etc.

Inheritance Taxes - slash the tax free amount, and increase the rate to 30%

CGT increase the rate to 30%. Doesn't matter, nothing is selling, but when things get better people might have to sell to survive, so will take the hit.

CT, unchanged or reduced by .5%

A levy on SW payments for employment initiatives.

VAT, well, I think the 0% rate might be increased for certain things. They might hope no one will notice that, although the shoes thing years ago might frighten them off.

I think the slash and burn cuts might be a bit worse than the tax changes, although they will be bad enough.
so a min wage worker would end up paying 28 percent tax? Surely they would all go on the dole?
 

jacko

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Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
2,666
property tax based on Commission on Taxation report - no exemptions for anyone

second home tax - increase from €200 to €1000 in addition to property tax

add 20c excise to petrol/diesel per litre
 

athlonedub

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Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
431
Deflate the tax credits and bands by about 5 to 7% and in doing so , broaden the base a bit.

Universal charge to merge PRSI and levy with no exemption limit.

Add 2% on to top rate. Wont bring in much but optically if the base is being broadened through measures above, the "well off" need to be seen to contribute (well off being a relative term).

Add 2pc to CGT and jack up gift and inheritance tax - see above.

Cap top rate pension relief to 33%.

Increase VAT to 23% from 1 January (when UK rate goes to 20%) and hope sterling doesn't depreciate more........

And for a "hail Mary", reduce Stamp Duty to say 3% (take has collapsed anyway) and hope it will generate some movement in commercial buildings etc this possibly generating SD and CGT although the latter unlikely, via overseas investors. They are sniffing around at the moment....

all for starters.......
 
B

birthday

property tax based on Commission on Taxation report - no exemptions for anyone

second home tax - increase from €200 to €1000 in addition to property tax

add 20c excise to petrol/diesel per litre
CoT report cannot be introduced in 2011 ( no valuations) so it would have to be a flat charge.

It will be difficult to justify a tax on 'family' homes that is higher than the existing second home tax.

BTW the valuers who valued Gilmore's other half's field for €525k will make a right killing over the next few years with property tax valuation. This should be worth at least a few hundred million to them-poor souls. Along with NAMA work this should just about keep their heads above water.
 

daveL

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Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,593
Deflate the tax credits and bands by about 5 to 7% and in doing so , broaden the base a bit.

Universal charge to merge PRSI and levy with no exemption limit.

Add 2% on to top rate. Wont bring in much but optically if the base is being broadened through measures above, the "well off" need to be seen to contribute (well off being a relative term).

Add 2pc to CGT and jack up gift and inheritance tax - see above.

Cap top rate pension relief to 33%.

Increase VAT to 23% from 1 January (when UK rate goes to 20%) and hope sterling doesn't depreciate more........

And for a "hail Mary", reduce Stamp Duty to say 3% (take has collapsed anyway) and hope it will generate some movement in commercial buildings etc this possibly generating SD and CGT although the latter unlikely, via overseas investors. They are sniffing around at the moment....

all for starters.......
adding more to the top rate is just self defeating

there is a myth out there that those well paid are paying very little

They pay pretty much everything.

But that's very easy to ignore.
 

gayguy2000

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
299
Will the price of booze go up? Shouldn't things like this get cheaper as we get poorer, how come in Ireland it gets more expensive???
 

asset test

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Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
14,812
so a min wage worker would end up paying 28 percent tax? Surely they would all go on the dole?
Well, what if the dole is cut too?? Anecdotally there are a many min wage jobs out there now, but the dole is more attractive. And I don't blame the dolies at all, the system is there to be used. Why wouldn't they?

There should, however, be tapered dole. Recently unemployed should keep full benefits for at least 12 months. They contributed after all. Those who have made a career out of SW benefits should be encouraged to take on a job. That will only be attractive if the dole is worse than a job.

I would prefer though, if the higher paid contributed more, ie. a third rate of tax. But it seems to me that the present Government is afraid of the wealthy moving their assets and domiciles abroad. God... how many of them are there? And if they did go, well that just proves to me that we are NOT all in this together... some are more privileged than others, and protected too. So a wealthy person is more useful to the State than a person trying to feed and clothe their kids.

The middle classes, as usual will bear the brunt of most of the changes to come along.
 

hammer

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Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
Part of the €14.5 billion adjustment over the last 2 years ( spoof Fianna FAIL figure ) included tax increases.

Taxes collected fell :) :)

Income levy, health levy, pension levy.........................

Increase excise, vat etc.............tax take will fall.

Increase top rate to whatever figure you want and tax take will fall.

FOR THE SIMPLE

WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE BACK WORKING.
 

hammer

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€6 billion adjustment :)

Can an RTE media hack please ask a Minister how much the live register will fall next year and what do they base the fall on.

Anyone with a clue can already see that people have stopped spending to the bare necessities ( generalisation but you get the drift ) and next year it WILL FALL FURTHER. What will that do for retail employment etc....................
 

athlonedub

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Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
431
adding more to the top rate is just self defeating

there is a myth out there that those well paid are paying very little

They pay pretty much everything.

But that's very easy to ignore.
I agree totally but you've got to distinguish between what is sensible and what is politically expedient. You hope that they both coincide. However not always........ I'm well into the top rate and when you add the PRSI and Income Levy its not nice -although I realise I'm lucky to be paying at that level ! - so I understand that I'll be hit squarely by such changes.
 

hammer

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Jul 6, 2009
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58,514
January 2011- tax take - in line with expectations
February - same
March - same
April - Hold schmoley Batman
May - Supplementary budget
 

daveL

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Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,593
Part of the €14.5 billion adjustment over the last 2 years ( spoof Fianna FAIL figure ) included tax increases.

Taxes collected fell :) :)

Income levy, health levy, pension levy.........................

Increase excise, vat etc.............tax take will fall.

Increase top rate to whatever figure you want and tax take will fall.

FOR THE SIMPLE

WE NEED TO GET PEOPLE BACK WORKING.
In one!

We must have some bunch of morons in our departments.

They only exist to ensure everything we do fails.

Reduce too many taxes ala Charlie and Cowen.. economy goes into credit fuelled hyperdrive...

Everything goes tits up and we then decide to start slamming the taxes back on to hammer the productive sectors of our economy

All the while starving business of cash.. we have very little liquidity in our economy now.. it's either being taxed or being saved..

More people heading for the exit or the dole queue

Our governments solution... more taxes there Brian..

Depressing.

Wish they would just f**k off.
 

smitchy2

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Jan 28, 2008
Messages
1,817
Will the price of booze go up? Shouldn't things like this get cheaper as we get poorer, how come in Ireland it gets more expensive???
If this is the thing you are most worried about you need to do a lot more reading up.

Budget deficit!
 

daveL

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Messages
19,593
I forgot the other solution

the export led economy

the same export led economy largely if not wholly dependent on the domestic services sector

which government policy is killing

they are simply incapable of seeing the macro view of the economy..

Everything is dealt with in isolation with no thoughts about knock on affects.
 

hammer

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Even the announcement today that the HSE are to cut 5,000 staff. Needs to be done.................etc - agree

That is 5,000 more jobs that need to be created by the private sector as these people cannot then become a drain on exchequer.

SMART Economy - not on your nellie :)
 
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