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Tax evasion and the State's finances.


riker1969

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,796
Given that the state now faces the worst financial crisis in 20 odd years if not eighty-then can the Government honestly say it has collected all the revenue it should?

A number of questions

Why in The Bank Of IRE survey did 33,000 claim to be Millionaires in terms of income but the revenue only have records of 12,000?
Our 'Bright' Minister for Finance recently asked for info on this!

How many times during the boom were you told by a tradesman that you could have a job done much cheaper if you paid cash? Many Self Employed people will tell you that the revenue know they are not paying everything but so long as they pay a reasonable amount ,they are happy.

I propose two solutions-one another Amnesty and two hire a hundred Commission only Revenue Commissioners to pore through the books of those associated with the building boom.
 

atlantic

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
649
so you want persecute people to give more money to the bunch of Gob********************es in Government .Alot of these tradesmen are now unemployed and need a bit for the rainy day.
 

Digout

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
1,396
so you want persecute people to give more money to the bunch of Gob********************es in Government .Alot of these tradesmen are now unemployed and need a bit for the rainy day.
most of them spend it on booze + coke.
 

atlantic

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
649

riker1969

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,796
so you want persecute people to give more money to the bunch of Gob********************es in Government .Alot of these tradesmen are now unemployed and need a bit for the rainy day.
So you prefer to have your taxes raised while tax dogers sit on their ill-gotten gains?
 

riker1969

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,796
Great posts-enjoy the extra taxation next year. The amount of intellectual discourse on this site is practically nil now.
 

riker1969

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,796
Here is a stastic to chew over; in the 1988 Tax Amnesty-it was expected (by those bright forecasting sparks in Finance) to raise 40m. It raised 500m. How many of you truly have confidence in the organs of the state to collect what it is due??We need another Amnesty. At the very least it would bring in a Billion.
 

FakeViking

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
9,005
Here is a stastic to chew over; in the 1988 Tax Amnesty-it was expected (by those bright forecasting sparks in Finance) to raise 40m. It raised 500m. How many of you truly have confidence in the organs of the state to collect what it is due??We need another Amnesty. At the very least it would bring in a Billion.
YET ANOTHER AMNESTY? For those of us who pay our taxes on time, and look at the likes of Bev's 41k tax free and Bertie's make up bill (let's not mention Roddy "I'm entitled to travel first class" Mulloy here), the concept of yet another amnesty for tax cheats sickens me.
 

gulliblepleb

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
48
A tax amnesty could raise 20 billion

A billion is a very small amount to raise in an amnesty. It has been more than 15 years since the last one and it is not likely that there has been no evasion since.

A flat rate of 20%
 

riker1969

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,796
I appreciate your feelings but let face facts. The Revenue cant minutely audit every self employed person so an amnesty makes sense. However,it would need a bit of draconian legislation to motivate the recalcitrant tax payer
 

RainyDay

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
2,552
How many times during the boom were you told by a tradesman that you could have a job done much cheaper if you paid cash?
As long as customers are happy to get (and often actively look for) a 'discount for cash', this tax evasion will continue.

And of course, watch out for the same customers to whinge about poor public services in the next breath.
 

Oppenheimer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
1,461
Given that the state now faces the worst financial crisis in 20 odd years if not eighty-then can the Government honestly say it has collected all the revenue it should?

A number of questions

Why in The Bank Of IRE survey did 33,000 claim to be Millionaires in terms of income but the revenue only have records of 12,000?
Our 'Bright' Minister for Finance recently asked for info on this!

How many times during the boom were you told by a tradesman that you could have a job done much cheaper if you paid cash? Many Self Employed people will tell you that the revenue know they are not paying everything but so long as they pay a reasonable amount ,they are happy.

I propose two solutions-one another Amnesty and two hire a hundred Commission only Revenue Commissioners to pore through the books of those associated with the building boom.
Was it in terms of income? I did not see what survey they carried out and the questionaire used but if it was essentially asking people to fill out a net worth statement that would include the value of their equity in their home which would not be the subject of revenue for any amnesty.

Here is a stastic to chew over; in the 1988 Tax Amnesty-it was expected (by those bright forecasting sparks in Finance) to raise 40m. It raised 500m. How many of you truly have confidence in the organs of the state to collect what it is due??We need another Amnesty. At the very least it would bring in a Billion.
If the principle activity in the economy was property development and by all accounts, many of these developer's are cash poor or bankrupt I wouldn't agree that the amnesty would deliver in the way it did in 1988. 1988 was also the first time this was done so there were bound to be legacy tax debts out their going back many years so a lot would have been cleared out then. In addition, the main contributors to the amnesty were small businesses, many family owned and self-employed people, who I would imagine, through their exposure to revenue then, have kept their tax affairs in order.
 

kellsangel

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
79
just imagine all the people an amnesty would bring into the tax net

what would we loose by having one and applying 10% of the take to tracking down anyone who evaded it?
 

wysiwyg

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
366
Here is a stastic to chew over; in the 1988 Tax Amnesty-it was expected (by those bright forecasting sparks in Finance) to raise 40m. It raised 500m. How many of you truly have confidence in the organs of the state to collect what it is due??We need another Amnesty. At the very least it would bring in a Billion.
Let me get this right... you want to have a tax amnesty, which will reward tax cheats, so that tax compliant people will have to bear less burden ?

That's away with the fairies stuff Riker to be honest... what's needed once and for all, is a legitimate fear of the Revenue Services similar to that which pertains in the US of the IRS... and why are US citizens so afraid of the IRS ?

Because people go to jail for evading tax, that's why... take a few high profile dodgers.. audit them to within an inch of their lives.... and if they are cheating.. bang them up... then do the same with some middle class professionals people, accountants, solicitors etc .. then the same with some "ordinary joes", self employed tradespeople etc etc...

So that the whole of the taxpaying public are left in no doubt... you dodge tax, you go to jail...

Another amnesty is only an invitation to continue evasion
 

kellsangel

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
79
Are you suggesting selective prosecution?

Lets acknowledge the reality that some people want to "come into the system" but that they will be hammered with penalties if they do.


The state desperately needs the money at the moment.

Many would have to borrow the money.

Try walking in to a bank to borrow money without an amnesty and the bank will turn you down.

As you might be in jail trying to repay the loan.
 

wysiwyg

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
366
Lets acknowledge the reality that some people want to "come into the system" but that they will be hammered with penalties if they do.


The state desperately needs the money at the moment.

Many would have to borrow the money.

Try walking in to a bank to borrow money without an amnesty and the bank will turn you down.

As you might be in jail trying to repay the loan.
Who has suddenly realised that they "want to come into the system" ?

That's a load of crap to be honest KA... there have been numerous amnesties.. over the past decade and a half... plenty of time to "come into the system" ... unless they started outside the system in that decade and a half in which case I have even less sympathy for them...

Pay your taxes.. or go to jail
 

Oppenheimer

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
1,461
Lets acknowledge the reality that some people want to "come into the system" but that they will be hammered with penalties if they do.


The state desperately needs the money at the moment.

Many would have to borrow the money.


Try walking in to a bank to borrow money without an amnesty and the bank will turn you down.

As you might be in jail trying to repay the loan.
People also need the cash they have to hand and as wysiwig suggests, they are not afraid of the taxman jailing them in the short-medium term but are of losing their house or being laid off, both of which need stores of cash to fend off. Furthermore, nobody is going to increase their debt unless they ABSOLUTELY have to in these times, not to mind that the banks won't lend (and should not) to pay off another debt like tax! The less credible threat is the tax man at this point. Also, the tax man will never be a credible threat if there is no enforcement, by law of tax evasion.
 

kellsangel

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
79
As a public servant I have no choice

I am very sure my tax burden as a compliant tax payer would be reduced by an amnesty

But there are lots of cash businesses out there, the small builders, greengrocers, restaurants, hair stylists, undertakers, painters, lawyers, accountants, dentists, beauticians, hotels, B&Bs, farmers, fuel merchants, car mechanics, pubs,

all told its 10% plus of the economy, now 10% annually for twenty odd years taxed at 15-25% sums to a tidy penny.

The state might have few other options in another 6 months as bank losses mount and government bonds become harder to sell.
 
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