• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Tax Payer pumps close to a €1 million into IBEC coffers.


Proposition Joe

Active member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
263
Lots of discussion on these boards lately about tax-reliefs on Union dues. However, it would appear that the employers Union, IBEC also receive vast sums.
One twentieth of the cost of tax relief on union subs?

Those IBEC lads are far too polite when it comes to elbowing their way to the trough.
 

feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995
One twentieth of the cost of tax relief on union subs?

Those IBEC lads are far too polite when it comes to elbowing their way to the trough.
Yet I understood that IBEC really represented bigger businesses, with the small lads being spoken for by ISME.

In which case that 20 to 1 ratio looks like IBEC is getting much more per member.
 

Proposition Joe

Active member
Joined
Jan 17, 2009
Messages
263
Yet I understood that IBEC really represented bigger businesses, with the small lads being spoken for by ISME.

In which case that 20 to 1 ratio looks like IBEC is getting much more per member.
Unless you count all the employees of the companies that are members of IBEC. Unless of course they're also members of a trade union. In which case I guess they could be split 50:50. Or would 70:30 be more appropriate?

See where your apples-to-oranges comparisons get you?
 

Gadfly

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
354
Lots of discussion on these boards lately about tax-reliefs on Union dues. However, it would appear that the employers Union, IBEC also receive vast sums.

Taxpayer pumping close to €1m into Ibec offers - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie
Hard to get my head around this. What possible logic is there in state agencies funding the work of sectoral lobbies? This should stop immediately.

Hard to think of a public expenditure we can more easily do without.
 

feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995

seenitallb4

Active member
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
197
Hard to get my head around this. What possible logic is there in state agencies funding the work of sectoral lobbies? This should stop immediately.

Hard to think of a public expenditure we can more easily do without.
That hit the nail on the head. Why is it up to the public to fund sectional interests?
 

He3

Moderator
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,094
That's a readymade annual saving.

Next?
 

wexfordman

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
7,877

powderfinger

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,353
Lots of discussion on these boards lately about tax-reliefs on Union dues. However, it would appear that the employers Union, IBEC also receive vast sums.

Taxpayer pumping close to €1m into Ibec offers - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie
Thanks Tressell.
This is what they call in the vernacular,a phucking pantomime.
Included in that article by John Drennan are the following gems.

  • 8 agencies under Harney's health ministry sub Ibec.

  • The Green lads would not disclose which agencies under it's stewardship are Ibec subscribers.(SEI,CER,EPA etc.)

  • In 2009 ,under some remnant entitlement expected from the Ahern/Cowen social partner year's.The IBEC received a marginal increase in revenue from taxpayer funded remittances.
Time for some fundamental reform here,going forward.
 
Last edited:

powderfinger

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,353
More on taxpayer funded sources of income to IBEC from Martin Wall in the IT.
HSE inquiry into fees paid to Ibec - The Irish Times - Mon, Nov 09, 2009

THE HEALTH Service Executive is examining substantial fees paid by dozens of health service bodies and agencies to employer’s body Ibec.
The authority’s management believes more than 50 HSE-funded bodies are paying Ibec for services when it has its own in-house facilities.
HSE’s national director of human resources Seán McGrath said yesterday that since he arrived in the organisation, he found it difficult to understand why institutions it funded were paying membership fees to Ibec.
Especially when it had its own Employers Service (formerly known as the HSE/EA) which had the necessary knowledge and experience and had consistently represented all health sector management in discussions with trade unions at local or national partnership level.
 

FakeViking

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
9,005
time for some fundamental reform here,going forward.

Fundamental reform, there's a funny thing. We've had the same party in power for 12 years, and for nearly all of the of the last 20 years. Why would we need reform now?
 

He3

Moderator
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
17,094
Last edited:

Niceguyeddie

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
90
A lovely bit of digging (and probably as close to the wire as Drennan could go while taking IN&M's shilling).

Of course, it would make sense to stop publicly funding a body that spends most of its time slagging off the public sector and screaming at government to cut current spending... but then, why would they do such a thing? If they only agree to 70pc of IBEC's draconian demands, then they appear moderate by comparison.

Between this and Chambers Ireland's little accounting problem that surfaced back in February - Chambers Ireland in court action: ThePost.ie (anyone have an update on this by the by?) - it seems our business groups aren't exactly slouches when it comes to sucking at the public teat. Look into the finances of Enterprise Ireland and various other training/business development agencies and I'd hazard a bet you'll see something that really stinks. In fact, I think I'm going to throw in a few FOIs....
 
  • Like
Reactions: He3

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
11,432
Neither IBEC or the Unions should get anything off the taxpayer they have members who can fund them.
 

Niceguyeddie

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
90
Neither IBEC or the Unions should get anything off the taxpayer they have members who can fund them.
True, but in both bodies the Government has someone 'independent' who'll come out and cheerlead whenever it does something to please either. In IBEC, they've someone to publicly scream for more cuts, no matter how savage the existing ones are. Back when Haughey needed someone to defend the indefensible, he wheeled out Lenihan senior. Having someone who'll pre-emptively defend it even before it happens is invaluable, particularly when Cowen doesn't have anyone in cabinet who's both likeable and intelligent (yet politically suicidal enough to publicly support what's happening).

For that reason, I suspect both IBEC and Chambers Ireland (as well as the unions) will not be allowed to fail.
 

hammer

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
58,514
Every day that goes by proves beyond doubt that we are a banana republic.

The abuse of exchequer funds has been SCARY.
 

Gadfly

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
354
More from that Wall article - this gets better and better:

"Ibec, on its website, says it provides employer services, based on expert knowledge in areas such as employment law, industrial relations, human resource best practice, training and development and health and safety.

Fás, the State training agency, said it had paid fees of €58,583 to Ibec this year and a similar amount last year.

Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan said Anglo Irish Bank, now in public ownership, paid €24,903 to Ibec this year and €24,823 last year. He also said the Central Bank and the Financial Services Authority had paid €25,626 to Ibec this year."

HSE inquiry into fees paid to Ibec - The Irish Times - Mon, Nov 09, 2009

If there is a Mismanagement Hall of Fame, Fás, Anglo and the FSA are surely bankers (for want of a better word) for place of honour.

What's the opposite of value for money?
 

Tombo

1
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
5,306
Top