Taxation Debate -Is NCT an extra Motor tax? Is the Lotto an extra tax?

loaded32

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Myself and my colleague were debating ways of raising revnue through taxation and looking at new, creative ways in particular. We came unstuck and couldnt agree on the following:
Is the NCT an extra stealth tax on motorists and is the Lotto also another tax, on gamblers mainly ? Thoughts?
 


Indiansign

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I've heard the Lotto described as a "tax on the stupid"....

I wouldn't call it a tax, however increasing the tax on gambling is something of an open goal. What is the tax rate at present to put a bet down with the bookies - 1% I think. Increase this to 5%, and no one would blink an eye.
 

Telemachus

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The plastic bag levy is also a form of stealth sales tax. If they were honest they would have just made it a legal requirment for shops to put a charge on plastics bags instead of creating a tax.

The Lotto is a tax on people who are addicted to gambling, how much money does the Lotto pay into anti-gambling charities? very little i'ld imagine.

To be honest i'ld like to see the tax money generated from the lotto, smoking and alcohol ring fenced to deal with the health and social consequences of those activities.
 

Ethan Edwards

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I always felt the Lotto was a tax on peoples dreams. The idea behind the NCT was to test vehicles to make sure they were road worthy but now it seems to be just another money spinner.
 

junius

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I've heard the Lotto described as a "tax on the stupid"....

I wouldn't call it a tax, however increasing the tax on gambling is something of an open goal. What is the tax rate at present to put a bet down with the bookies - 1% I think. Increase this to 5%, and no one would blink an eye.
Great idea - make it 20%+. This betting lark is only ridiculous oneupmanship - always reminds me of gorillas beating their chests - look at me, how great I am!
 

EUrJokingMeRight

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The NCT is a self sustaining industry, which keeps dangerous cars off the road. As long as it remains reasonably priced I think it is not a bad thing.
HOWEVER, the lotto is a complete, albeit an opt in, stealth tax simply because of the returns. (the following is courtesy of www.lottresults.ie here are the odds of winning vs the returns;

' * Jackpot: 8,145,060 / 1
* 5 plus the bonus: 1,392,317 / 1
* 5 numbers: 34,807 / 1
* 4 plus the bonus: 14,274 / 1
* 4 numbers: 732 / 1
* 3 plus the bonus: 579 / 1
* 3 numbers: 45 / 1

Basically what the above means is that if the National Lottery Lotto draw was fair, then considering you pay €1.50 per line, the jackpot should be a minimum of over €12M every time! So you could look at it like the National Lottery is only giving you 16% of what you should be getting, if you win a jackpot of €2M.

But it gets much worse as you go down the payout structure...the real odds of getting 5 number plus the bonus are 1,392,317 / 1. If you match 5 plus the bonus, you get...wait for it...€25K!! If they were fair about it you would be getting over €2M, which means they are paying you only approx. 1.2% of what you should get. Unbelievable. '

yes the lotto is keeping quite a few favoured 'clubs' in more than pocket money my friends. But, this is FF ireland so no surprise there then.
 

foreignfield80

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A German friend refers to the lotto as "Eselsteuer" or donkey tax for those not up on our new language yet.
 
D

Dylan2010

OP is missing the point, every tax pulls money out of the productive economy or transfers it to the public sector to destroy value. Thinking of new ways that somehow people wont notice is moving deckchairs..... and is not creative.
If you want to get creative , think of ways of lowering taxes so trhat more business comes to Ireland, there are 60million potential customers less then an hour away if the price is right
 

Maximus Cynicus

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for those not up on our new language yet.
:)

One of the original intentions of the NCT was to take all the unsafe bangers off the road. As far as the NCT fulfills the safety function I think it has a valid purpose. HOWEVER, personally I fail to see what some of the minor issues leading to a fail (e.g. numberplates) have to do with the major tenets of road safety
 

Cavalier

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To be honest i'ld like to see the tax money generated from the lotto, smoking and alcohol ring fenced to deal with the health and social consequences of those activities.
A portion of tobacco duty every year goes to Dept Health as a health levy. Not quite a direct dart at the specific target, but it's in the right direction.
 

Miserable eFFer

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In most States in the USA there is an obligation to publish the number of prizes yet to be won in any particular scratch card game. When all or most of the high value prizes are won people can stop buying them and buy cards where there is a better chance of a win. The NCT (Applus+) have only taken over a tax gathering function previously done by the Revenue Commissioners. It seems they don't charge as much though. Guess it's a lottery either way.
 

FionnMc

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Neither the NCT or the Lotto could be classified as extra taxes. The NCT charge is not excessive and many minor fails like mentioned above can be rectified and rechecked visually without additional cost (so long as it doesn't involve use of the test equipment). The Lotto is entirely opt-in so classifying it as a tax would be the same as classifying additional channels on your Sky TV package as a tax.
 

Harmonica

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The NCT is one of the few public services which has had almost no price increase. If it was a tax would cost 200 euro now.

The Lotto is probably a tax as the money raised is used to fund services that the state would be responsible for without the lotto.

I really hate the double taxation phrase as the way people use it everything would be a double tax. Only probably VRT really is a double tax as VAT is charged on top of VRT.
 

Cavalier

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Only probably VRT really is a double tax as VAT is charged on top of VRT.
VAT is also charged on top of excise duty and customs duties. The VAT charged is a percentage of the duty-included price. Very similar to VRT
 
B

boo-boo

Tax, Tax, Tax

Are there social class divisions in the people who purchase the Irish Lotto?

I often wondered to myself are people from predominantly working class or middle class backgrounds more likely to do the Lotto in the far reaching hope of being a winner, over and above people from the higher social classes?

The Govt. would definately have a steady stream of tax income if they decided to tax the lotto and all its winnings....and you'd definately see the frequency of roll-over's on the increase!!!

NCT is definately a stealt tax! I regularly service my car....and I certainly dont see why I should pay to get my car serviced like the responsible road user that I am, and then have to pay extra to get the car NCT verified as roadworthy, by another company when the car was just bloomin serviced?

Simple solution, why dont the Govt. introduce a system where in order to tax your car you have to produce the certificate of roadworthiness along with an identification number and this certificate of roadworthiness is only produced by a registered mechanic and only after the car is serviced.

Anybody ever try to import a car from the UK in the past........and what happened if the car you imported had a valid UK certificate of roadworthiness?

Did the Department recognise the UK certificate of roadworthiness....eh no:eek:

Did they recognise EU law...eh no:eek:
 

Baron von Biffo

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I've heard the Lotto described as a "tax on the stupid"....

I wouldn't call it a tax, however increasing the tax on gambling is something of an open goal. What is the tax rate at present to put a bet down with the bookies - 1% I think. Increase this to 5%, and no one would blink an eye.
Ivan Yates would be launched into orbit with fury if anyone tried that.
 

junius

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Neither the NCT or the Lotto could be classified as extra taxes. The NCT charge is not excessive and many minor fails like mentioned above can be rectified and rechecked visually without additional cost (so long as it doesn't involve use of the test equipment). The Lotto is entirely opt-in so classifying it as a tax would be the same as classifying additional channels on your Sky TV package as a tax.
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100 posts before you can start a thread or send a PM? You're joking, right?
I see this is your 101st post. So, you can now start your thread and send a PM. Congratulations!
 


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