Teachers union seeks to control lives of members

cd27

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You must do as we say, regardless of your rights as a person,

Teachers ordered to walk out of classes - Latest News, Education - Independent.ie

"It tells teachers in nearly 300 post- primary schools that "deviations from the directive will not be tolerated".

A new low, even by their standards?

TUI members have been told they face disciplinary action if they fail to implement it.

"Consideration will be given to the bringing of charges of unworthy conduct," says general secretary Peter MacMenamin.
A pity they wouldn't allow a charge of 'unworthy conduct' even to be investigated in relation to poor and underperforming teachers, oh the hypocrisy.
 


code twinkle

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You must do as we say, regardless of your rights as a person,

Teachers ordered to walk out of classes - Latest News, Education - Independent.ie




A new low, even by their standards?



A pity they wouldn't allow a charge of 'unworthy conduct' even to be investigated in relation to poor and underperforming teachers, oh the hypocrisy.

You're kind of crazy aren't you? Being in a union isn't the same as living under a facist dictatorship no matter how often you compare the situtations.

Neither, more generally, is partaking in society as a citizen. You're like a little kid "you can't make me do that, you're not the boss of me"...Sometimes grown-ups do have to do things they don't like in order to achieve a greater good. This is not facism despite your many threads to the contrary.
 

doubleglaze

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Jan 3, 2009
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The Union is obviously reaffirming its "authority" over union members with a view to more militant action when An Bord Snip recommendations are implemented.

I foresee division and acrimony amongst teachers in the future, particularly when public sector net salaries are further slashed to balance the books.

It's a very clear ban on extra-curricular activities... I can see a high level of non-compliance with that ban. "The school tour to Germany is actually a core part of the German curriculum, Comrade!"
 

carlovian

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Jun 20, 2008
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This is the union refusing to allow principles flexibility in relation to dealing with education cuts.

They are obviously trying to start a row leading to further action.

Whats really low is their targeting of their own members to acheive this aim.
 

X-ray

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You must do as we say, regardless of your rights as a person,

Teachers ordered to walk out of classes - Latest News, Education - Independent.ie




A new low, even by their standards?



A pity they wouldn't allow a charge of 'unworthy conduct' even to be investigated in relation to poor and underperforming teachers, oh the hypocrisy.
Well you can always leave the union or join another if its policy is objectionable to you. They either have a bottom line or they dont. Do you suggest they continue to teach no matter how bad the situation gets?

Its a has line they are taking and I dont know all the ins and outs of the situation, but at some point people will have to put the foot down and refuse to accept further erosion of key services. The government is clearly working on the basis of cut til it hurts. make sure they know it hurts.
 

belvoboy

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You're kind of crazy aren't you? Being in a union isn't the same as living under a facist dictatorship no matter how often you compare the situtations.
But did this ever go to a vote?

I'm guessing the analogy you are making is that this is like a strike picket where somebody passes the picket line. I'm not an expert on the teachers' unions but I don't recall any vote in the last few months when the desperate decline in the State's finances has become clear.
 
B

birthday

Do the TUI realise that the country is in a very serious situation?

heading towards 500,000 unemployed, 500 applicants for each taching job!
Just like FF and their cronies they are accustomed to a certain level of entitlement.
The reality is that we are short €20 billion and that either class sizes will go up a bit or their salaries will go down a little.
First it was all the childish nonsense about swine flu now this.
It could quite reasonably be argued that the reason class sizes are what they are is that all the money has been spent on their salaries and pensions.
As far as I can see the sooner they have to face irate parents on the streets outside schools the better!
I suspect however that, cute hoors that they are, that the industrial action will be of a type type that manages to avoid any contact with parents.
 

shannonBlueShirt

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What does a charge of 'unworthy conduct' detail... Do the other teachers just stop talking to them?

Isnt that Bully??
 

belvoboy

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Do the TUI realise that the country is in a very serious situation?

heading towards 500,000 unemployed, 500 applicants for each taching job!
Just like FF and their cronies they are accustomed to a certain level of entitlement.
The reality is that we are short €20 billion and that either class sizes will go up a bit or their salaries will go down a little.
First it was all the childish nonsense about swine flu now this.
It could quite reasonably be argued that the reason class sizes are what they are is that all the money has been spent on their salaries and pensions.
Exactly.
Or taxpayers get more work for the same pay e.g. I made some suggestions in: http://www.politics.ie/education-science/94597-teachers-esp-post-primary-should-they-have-such-long-holidays.html e.g. have to invigilate the State exams as part of their contract and/or they have to correct State exam papers and the like (if any did both they'd be excused the following year). This would save money.

Another possibility is that they might supervise study sessions after school e.g. which might only end up being one day a week or less. I made other suggestions in the other thread e.g. helping on a one-to-one level. But I'm possibly going off topic mentioning that and many of these suggestions wouldn't necessarily save the Exchequer money as the State would be providing extra services.
 

jellyroll

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Could I just point out the TUI's response to these sensationalist headlines:

TUI not instructing teachers to walk out of classes

As the statement makes clear, the TUI are not asking teachers to walk out of classes. What they are doing is reminding members of the agreed position in relation to class sizes - an agreement that has been in place for many years.
 

shannonBlueShirt

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Could I just point out the TUI's response to these sensationalist headlines:

TUI not instructing teachers to walk out of classes

As the statement makes clear, the TUI are not asking teachers to walk out of classes. What they are doing is reminding members of the agreed position in relation to class sizes - an agreement that has been in place for many years.
Thanks for the link

I found what I was looking for...
http://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/TUI Rule Book 2009.pdf
SECTION Q​
UNWORTHY CONDUCT
138. It shall be deemed unworthy for any member:
(i) To take an appointment from which a member has been dismissed or
suspended in circumstances where the Executive Committee declares it
is not in agreement with the decision of the Minister and/or the
employer.
(ii) To be guilty of conduct which in the opinion of Congress or of the
Executive Committee is injurious to the interests of the Union.
139. A member charged with unworthy conduct shall be given an opportunity to
submit in writing to the Executive Committee within one month any
observations he/she may wish to make on the charge against him/her and
the Executive Committee shall consider such observations before arriving at
a decision.​
The member charged with unworthy conduct, shall be provided with the
complete details constituting the case against him/her. Furthermore, if
having requested it, the member charged with the offence, shall be entitled
to an oral hearing by the Executive Committee.
140. A member found guilty of unworthy conduct by the Executive, may be
censured, fined, suspended or expelled from the Union. Such a member​
shall have a right to appeal to the next Congress.
.
Does censured mean that the other teachers just wont take to them :confused:?

If the union have no problem following the Dept of Ed guidelines, why are they not following the Dept of Finances guidelines????
 

The Field Marshal

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Nothing new in Teachers Unions adopting a dictatorial tone.

Its not so long ago they hi -jacked the youth for their nazi style rally in Croke Park

Along with the nurses they,ve knocked the mitres of the bishops heads and put them on their own.
 

irish_bob

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Do the TUI realise that the country is in a very serious situation?

heading towards 500,000 unemployed, 500 applicants for each taching job!
Just like FF and their cronies they are accustomed to a certain level of entitlement.
The reality is that we are short €20 billion and that either class sizes will go up a bit or their salaries will go down a little.
First it was all the childish nonsense about swine flu now this.
It could quite reasonably be argued that the reason class sizes are what they are is that all the money has been spent on their salaries and pensions.
As far as I can see the sooner they have to face irate parents on the streets outside schools the better!
I suspect however that, cute hoors that they are, that the industrial action will be of a type type that manages to avoid any contact with parents.


very true , the teachers weasel words and crocodile tears must be exposed when it comes to them voicing thier concern for higher class sizes and the lost of special needs teachers , if the profession takes a pay cut as a whole , both of theese issues can be quite easily dealt with , again our media is not calling them on this
 

riker1969

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Nothing new in Teachers Unions adopting a dictatorial tone.

Its not so long ago they hi -jacked the youth for their nazi style rally in Croke Park

Along with the nurses they,ve knocked the mitres of the bishops heads and put them on their own.

Nazi sytle rally? What an idotic post and perhaps idiot poster. Prove your point. I know you wont.

Look-the TUI is only asking its members to follow an agreement reached between the Department and the Union. Its not creating a new policy. As a teacher , it becomes impossible to give individual attention once the numbers become too big. It becomes like a lecture. Now thats fine if you could count on the parents of today teaching kids manners-but you cant,so the larger the numbers the more disruption,the less teaching occurs.
But again to repeat for the remedial poster who started this thread-TUI is just asking Principals to stick to a long standing agreement of Educational value. Deal with the facts.
The Union is ultimately a Democratic body. This Policy has the backing of its members-those who bother their arse to go to Meetings.
 

riker1969

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very true , the teachers weasel words and crocodile tears must be exposed when it comes to them voicing thier concern for higher class sizes and the lost of special needs teachers , if the profession takes a pay cut as a whole , both of theese issues can be quite easily dealt with , again our media is not calling them on this
You could take higher taxes and pay for the services you want? Why should one profession cut back to provide better services for others?? You could apply that system to every walk of life. What do you do-will you take a pay cut so I can have a cheaper service?? Hardly.

However-pay cuts might happen (Again -they have already occurred in Public sector) simply because the State has no money. But if you are asking me to take one for the sake of the system-you can feck off. Why? Because the system has and will prob always be underfunded in good times and bad. Dont get me started on how the general Population no longer properly discipline kids but expects teachers to handle some of the largest class sizes in Europe.
 
Last edited:
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Nazi sytle rally? What an idotic post and perhaps idiot poster. Prove your point. I know you wont.

Look-the TUI is only asking its members to follow an agreement reached between the Department and the Union. Its not creating a new policy. As a teacher , it becomes impossible to give individual attention once the numbers become too big. It becomes like a lecture. Now thats fine if you could count on the parents of today teaching kids manners-but you cant,so the larger the numbers the more disruption,the less teaching occurs.
But again to repeat for the remedial poster who started this thread-TUI is just asking Principals to stick to a long standing agreement of Educational value. Deal with the facts.
The Union is ultimately a Democratic body. This Policy has the backing of its members-those who bother their arse to go to Meetings.
For all those on their regular anti teacher rant perhaps a point of reality to follow on; most classrooms are designed to take a maximum number of pupils, i.e laboratories & workshops etc at 24. This spec is established by the Department of Education & Science itself! When a classroom is full there's nowhere else for the pupil to go! A teacher told me yesterday that she has 34 in an honours maths class and that the school doesn't have a room big enough for the class.
How can the teacher get round to all these pupils in a 40 minute class period, give exemplars and teach? I've concluded that many of the anti-teacher posters on this site haven't the slighest idea how a school actually works and seem to have enjoyed a cocooned youth perhaps in private education wher the chips on the shoulder were carfully nursed
 

The Field Marshal

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Riker 1969.

Just do the research laddie if your able that is.

Around the late seventies early eighties the Irish teachers held rallies in Croke park as far as I recall in order to agitate for their usual imagined grievances.

In order to bolster their spurious claims they attempted to enlist schoolchildren.

I recall the events clearly and my view at the time was shame on all teachers unions. Any respect i might have had for teachers unions evaporated completely at that point in time.

Of course they merely reflect the deep seated arrogance and contempt for the general public thats endemic in public sector trade unions.
 


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