Tectonic shift (or tweet) of the week or something more serious (yawn?) Trumps Iran gambit and Europe

yosef shompeter

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Tectonic shift (or tweet) of the week or something more serious (yawn?) Trumps Iran gambit and Europe

Time for Europe to Stand Up to the United States - SPIEGEL ONLINE
A fairly gripping analysis

Der Spiegel, the German respectable leftie glossie is sounding the alarm bells over Trump's retreat from the Iran nuclear treaty. The article is in English -- but there's a German version too in the main magazine if anyone wants.

Trying to make sense of it... Why would Trump want to tear up an agreement that (on the surface) seems to help nuclear non-proliferation? Is it his experience or new knowledge that he got from dealing with Kim Jung Un, the stout North Korean lad who now has the bomb.
Is it simply a case that the genie is out of the bottle? 1940's technology is now easily available to practically any country -- i.e. if the Pakis and the Koreans can do it, (-- two backward underdeveloped nations) -- then anyone can.
Brave new world then or is it a massive blunder on the part of the Donald.
Are the German hopes of peace and stability and nuclear non-prolifereation passé?
Trump seems to be influenced by information supplied by Israeli Premier, Netanyahu. What does he have on the Iranians that the Germans downplay or disregard?
Is it really a Transatlantic split or only just a Transatlantic rift... next month it will be all OK after Donald tweets something different?
 


Tacitus

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I am afraid that the Trump presidency will cause lasting damage to the Transatlantic relationship. With Bush it was still possible to see him and his damaging ME policy as an exception, but now Europeans probably realize that the Americans might be willing to elect someone like him on a regular basis. The fact that Trump is destroying an agreement in which the Europeans invested a lot of time and effort is - even disregarding the possible consequences - is a source of a lot of frustration.

One needs to keep in mind that Merkel has been incredibly conciliatory towards the USA so far. She mended fences with the highly unpopular Bush. She forgave Obama the NSA scandals. She showed restraint with Trump, and yet she has now to deal in her last term with a president who is openly showing more sympathy towards Russia than most of his European allies. No doubt that future German chancellors will learn from this. Other European politicians might think the same. Macron made a lot of effort to befriend Trump, yet he failed to convince him of his foreign political goals, and his relationship with Trump leaves him open for criticism at home.

In short, things are not looking all to rosy for the partnership between the USA and Europe.
 

Spanner Island

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Everyone knows Kim blew up his nuclear testing site and needs a few years to build another one.
 

storybud1

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Kim and the Iranians working together for years and everybody knows it,

ignore the bunker collapse sh1t cover story, most likely the true extent of Iranian enrichment capabilities have been found out, sure Obama was possibly the worst foreign policy President ever, a complete fooking tool and the world knows it.
 

Niall996

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Euro big business in a huff over losing giant hugely enriching contracts paid for by ordinary EU taxpayers.
 

middleground

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Time for Europe to Stand Up to the United States - SPIEGEL ONLINE
A fairly gripping analysis

Der Spiegel, the German respectable leftie glossie is sounding the alarm bells over Trump's retreat from the Iran nuclear treaty. The article is in English -- but there's a German version too in the main magazine if anyone wants.

Trying to make sense of it... Why would Trump want to tear up an agreement that (on the surface) seems to help nuclear non-proliferation? Is it his experience or new knowledge that he got from dealing with Kim Jung Un, the stout North Korean lad who now has the bomb.
Is it simply a case that the genie is out of the bottle? 1940's technology is now easily available to practically any country -- i.e. if the Pakis and the Koreans can do it, (-- two backward underdeveloped nations) -- then anyone can.
Brave new world then or is it a massive blunder on the part of the Donald.
Are the German hopes of peace and stability and nuclear non-prolifereation passé?
Trump seems to be influenced by information supplied by Israeli Premier, Netanyahu. What does he have on the Iranians that the Germans downplay or disregard?
Is it really a Transatlantic split or only just a Transatlantic rift... next month it will be all OK after Donald tweets something different?
Backward in what respect or is money = development for you, is that how you measure quality of life?
 

GabhaDubh

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Kim and the Iranians working together for years and everybody knows it,

ignore the bunker collapse sh1t cover story, most likely the true extent of Iranian enrichment capabilities have been found out, sure Obama was possibly the worst foreign policy President ever, a complete fooking tool and the world knows it.
The leaps in development was beyond the scope of North Korea, Iran has abundance of foreign and home educated engineers coupled with Iran’s new found wealth allowed Iran to off-shore the continued development of their nuclear program.
 

Mitsui2

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Sheeple_Waker

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It’d be pretty safe to say that European and American values have widely diverged since the end of the Cold War. Creatures like Bolton or Mike Pence would be given a wide berth by most Europeans. An example from close to home, the Irish counterpart of Pence, Justin Barrett, is widely considered (correctly imo) to be both a moron and a crazed voice from the fringes by the majority of Irish citizens; in this country no electorate would vote to give this man access to the levers of power. However, if someone ran on Barrett’s platform in the red states of the US (death penalty for abortion, anti LGBT rights, Christian fundamentalism, anti-immigrant, pro conscription and gun rights) they would stand an excellent chance of getting elected. Trump represents this strain of American populism (if you want to call it that; dominionist is a more suitable term for many of these people) and it’s entirelyy alien to most Europeans.
 

Peppermint

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Trump has found a tool at his level!
It seems a good option to send a tit in to talk to a tit! They speak the same gobbledygook.. gook.. Neither is beyond ignoring the truth. Both love the media of their choice.. I don't know what the FOX news of NK is, but I'm sure DT's friend loves it..
 

GabhaDubh

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Trainwreck

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Time for Europe to Stand Up to the United States - SPIEGEL ONLINE
A fairly gripping analysis

Der Spiegel, the German respectable leftie glossie is sounding the alarm bells over Trump's retreat from the Iran nuclear treaty. The article is in English -- but there's a German version too in the main magazine if anyone wants.

Trying to make sense of it... Why would Trump want to tear up an agreement that (on the surface) seems to help nuclear non-proliferation? Is it his experience or new knowledge that he got from dealing with Kim Jung Un, the stout North Korean lad who now has the bomb.
Is it simply a case that the genie is out of the bottle? 1940's technology is now easily available to practically any country -- i.e. if the Pakis and the Koreans can do it, (-- two backward underdeveloped nations) -- then anyone can.
Brave new world then or is it a massive blunder on the part of the Donald.
Are the German hopes of peace and stability and nuclear non-prolifereation passé?
Trump seems to be influenced by information supplied by Israeli Premier, Netanyahu. What does he have on the Iranians that the Germans downplay or disregard?
Is it really a Transatlantic split or only just a Transatlantic rift... next month it will be all OK after Donald tweets something different?
Nice to see journalists demanding EU make its moral choices about whether to align with liberal western democracy or theocratic terrorism suppporting tyrannies.

It is evidence that Europe is fúcked when mainstream media feel moved to print drivel like this.
 

Clanrickard

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Backward in what respect or is money = development for you, is that how you measure quality of life?
Backward as in having opinions and ideas from 2 centuries ago.
 

Speedfreak

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This is funny. But there's also some interesting comments made as to what the deal actually contained and I suppose more to the point, did not contain.


[video=youtube;ypd-2BHPlwQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypd-2BHPlwQ[/video]
 

Sheeple_Waker

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Nice to see journalists demanding EU make its moral choices about whether to align with liberal western democracy or theocratic terrorism suppporting tyrannies.

It is evidence that Europe is fúcked when mainstream media feel moved to print drivel like this.
The evidence shows that Iran has to date complied with its obligations under the terms of the non-proliferation agreement. For Trump to unilaterally rip it up, in similar fashion to other agreements, without a workable alternative, should rightly concern Europeans about Trump’s trustworthiness as an ally. As for liberal democratic values, I don’t recall any mainstream leaders from any of the EU countries describing a murderous Stalinist dictator as ‘great’ and ‘honourable’.
 
D

Deleted member 51920

Time for Europe to Stand Up to the United States - SPIEGEL ONLINE
A fairly gripping analysis

Der Spiegel, the German respectable leftie glossie is sounding the alarm bells over Trump's retreat from the Iran nuclear treaty. The article is in English -- but there's a German version too in the main magazine if anyone wants.

Trying to make sense of it... Why would Trump want to tear up an agreement that (on the surface) seems to help nuclear non-proliferation? Is it his experience or new knowledge that he got from dealing with Kim Jung Un, the stout North Korean lad who now has the bomb.
Is it simply a case that the genie is out of the bottle? 1940's technology is now easily available to practically any country -- i.e. if the Pakis and the Koreans can do it, (-- two backward underdeveloped nations) -- then anyone can.
Brave new world then or is it a massive blunder on the part of the Donald.
Are the German hopes of peace and stability and nuclear non-prolifereation passé?
Trump seems to be influenced by information supplied by Israeli Premier, Netanyahu. What does he have on the Iranians that the Germans downplay or disregard?
Is it really a Transatlantic split or only just a Transatlantic rift... next month it will be all OK after Donald tweets something different?

The EU will have no choice but to re-impose sanctions - and rightly so too imv
Starving the regime of resources is the only way to bring it down peacefully
It worked with the Soviets and it will work with Iran

US sanctions would prevent American companies from doing business with Iran. But the US Treasury also plans to enforce "secondary sanctions" that could ensnare European companies including Airbus and Volkswagen.

"The United States is a big gorilla on the world stage. We try to not only control our companies, but also try to control what other countries' companies do," said Judith Lee, an international trade lawyer at Gibson Dunn in Washington, DC.


Companies caught violating the sanctions could be cut off from the US financial system and targeted with a range of other punishments.
Iran sanctions: Can Europe really keep doing business with Iran?
 

toughbutfair

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The Iran deal always seemed a bit Neville Chamberlain. However, the Islamic state could have been nuked years ago (not being wise after the fact, the records show I called for it here ) , same with North Korea.

Muslims with nukes is a bad idea, would you have given one to bin laden ?
 

Speedfreak

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Euro big business in a huff over losing giant hugely enriching contracts paid for by ordinary EU taxpayers.
Yeah. Hard to know whether it's big business behind that the likes of the Spiegel article, or politicians like Merkel whose primary concern is the optics.
 

paulp

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Euro big business in a huff over losing giant hugely enriching contracts paid for by ordinary EU taxpayers.
You have a deal and remove sanctions
Iranian economy picks up and your average Iranian feels the positive impact
And with public support growing for the moderates its easier for them to push on and open up the country and normalize relations with the rest of the world

But instead the hardliners are emboldened
 


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