The 8th - its pernicious effects

Emily Davison

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We people can be complacent about the pernicious effects that the 8th has on real women's lives, in this case a vulnerable young woman.

Girl sectioned after psychiatrist ruled out abortion

Girl’s doctor said she was at risk of suicide due to pregnancy but termination was ‘not the solution’

A girl deemed to be at risk of suicide who wanted an abortion was sectioned under the Mental Health Act because her treating psychiatrist said terminating the pregnancy was “was not the solution”.


Imagine being that young girl and coming up against some in the medical establisment who section you, despite you not being mentally ill and not needing sectioning because a phychiatrist genuinely, or most perniciously perhaps, because they are against abortion. Imagine that medical professionals have such power over your body and over what you need if they have a different moral vision to you.
 


ruserious

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How do we know she's not mentally ill? Are you a psychiatrist and have you examined the girl?
 

Hitchcock

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How do we know she's not mentally ill? Are you a psychiatrist and have you examined the girl?
read the article...

“As the young girl did not have a mental illness she could not be detained under the Mental Heath Act.
 

damus

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How do we know she's not mentally ill? Are you a psychiatrist and have you examined the girl?
The court held that her disordere did not warrant her being detained in a MH facility under the MH 2001 Act. Yet another case that will end up before the HC!
 
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Half Nelson

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We now have the courts second guessing the medical profession.
This will end well.
 

PeaceGoalie

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The abortion on demand lot are swamping Twitter. Good for nothings mostly, on the fiddle. Lynn Ruane, an unmarried mother who used her Presidency of TCDSU to become a TCD Senator, is boasting her daughter posted some crap about abortion on her school's year book. These people should be made work for a living.
Of ocurse, banging up a girl is fine with theser ybs even though it is statotory rape
 

Erudite Caveman

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We people can be complacent about the pernicious effects that the 8th has on real women's lives, in this case a vulnerable young woman.

Girl sectioned after psychiatrist ruled out abortion

Girl’s doctor said she was at risk of suicide due to pregnancy but termination was ‘not the solution’

A girl deemed to be at risk of suicide who wanted an abortion was sectioned under the Mental Health Act because her treating psychiatrist said terminating the pregnancy was “was not the solution”.


Imagine being that young girl and coming up against some in the medical establisment who section you, despite you not being mentally ill and not needing sectioning because a phychiatrist genuinely, or most perniciously perhaps, because they are against abortion. Imagine that medical professionals have such power over your body and over what you need if they have a different moral vision to you.
I don't fancy your casual separation of feeling suicidal and mental illness just to suit an agenda.
 

Half Nelson

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Can we fix the mistake in the title? It makes the thread seem..eh... uneducated.
 

GDPR

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We people can be complacent about the pernicious effects that the 8th has on real women's lives, in this case a vulnerable young woman.

Girl sectioned after psychiatrist ruled out abortion

Girl’s doctor said she was at risk of suicide due to pregnancy but termination was ‘not the solution’

A girl deemed to be at risk of suicide who wanted an abortion was sectioned under the Mental Health Act because her treating psychiatrist said terminating the pregnancy was “was not the solution”.


Imagine being that young girl and coming up against some in the medical establisment who section you, despite you not being mentally ill and not needing sectioning because a phychiatrist genuinely, or most perniciously perhaps, because they are against abortion. Imagine that medical professionals have such power over your body and over what you need if they have a different moral vision to you.
Abortion is not a cure for risk of suicide, they were told that at the time of the proposed legislation, but chose for political reasons to disregard that.
Abortion is a cure only for wanting an abortion, for one of the lives involved anyway, for the other life of course it's the final solution.

We cannot prevent suicide for someone quite determined to go through with it, just as indeed we cannot prevent an abortion if someone is quite determined to look after their own interests and are prepared to kill to that end.

That said, the 8th does its job, 3,500 abortions last year as against 15,000 if we operated under the UK abortion law.
 

talkingshop

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Very unclear article. How many psychiatrists is she talking about? Did the first psychiatrist sign the order to have her detained, and then change his/her mind and tell the court she shouldn't be detained? Of course it is Kitty Holland...:roll:
 

Sister Mercedes

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We don't give the right to choose to pregnant women. Instead we give it to psychiatrists who are no more qualified as gynecologists than shop assistants. Just what this country needs. Yet another bunch of people making decisions that people should be left to make for themselves.
 

StarryPlough01

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Emily, Good thread.

Was this an Article 40? <before the courts last year>
 

damus

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Very unclear article. How many psychiatrists is she talking about? Did the first psychiatrist sign the order to have her detained, and then change his/her mind and tell the court she shouldn't be detained? Of course it is Kitty Holland...:roll:
The girl was reviewed by two psychs. The first signed the order and detained her, and the second determined that she did not meet the criteria for detention under the MH Act 2001.
 

StarryPlough01

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http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html

Article 40

4 1° No citizen shall be deprived of his personal liberty save in accordance with law.

2° Upon complaint being made by or on behalf of any person to the High Court or any judge thereof alleging that such person is being unlawfully detained, the High Court and any and every judge thereof to whom such complaint is made shall forthwith enquire into the said complaint and may order the person in whose custody such person is detained to produce the body of such person before the High Court on a named day and to certify in writing the grounds of his detention, and the High Court shall, upon the body of such person being produced before that Court and after giving the person in whose custody he is detained an opportunity of justifying the detention, order the release of such person from such detention unless satisfied that he is being detained in accordance with the law.


3° Where the body of a person alleged to be unlawfully detained is produced before the High Court in pursuance of an order in that behalf made under this section and that Court is satisfied that such person is being detained in accordance with a law but that such law is invalid having regard to the provisions of this Constitution, the High Court shall refer the question of the validity of such law to the Court of Appeal by way of case stated and may, at the time of such reference or at any time thereafter, allow the said person to be at liberty on such bail and subject to such conditions as the High Court shall fix until the Court of Appeal has determined the question so referred to it.


4° The High Court before which the body of a person alleged to be unlawfully detained is to be produced in pursuance of an order in that behalf made under this section shall, if the President of the High Court or, if he is not available, the senior judge of that Court who is available so directs in respect of any particular case, consist of three judges and shall, in every other case, consist of one judge only.
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Abortion is not a cure for risk of suicide, they were told that at the time of the proposed legislation, but chose for political reasons to disregard that.
Abortion is a cure only for wanting an abortion, for one of the lives involved anyway, for the other life of course it's the final solution.

We cannot prevent suicide for someone quite determined to go through with it, just as indeed we cannot prevent an abortion if someone is quite determined to look after their own interests and are prepared to kill to that end.

That said, the 8th does its job, 3,500 abortions last year as against 15,000 if we operated under the UK abortion law.


A was happy with life. A got pregnant and being pregnant was so catastrophic to her, that it caused her to become suicidal.

You are suggesting that if the pregnancy was terminated, she would continue to be suicidal.

Please explain the reasoning...the impact on the unborn is not of relevance to your answer, unless you argue that she would immediately have suicidal feelings out of guilt for terminating the pregnancy.
 

damus

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Irish Statute Book

Article 40

4 1° No citizen shall be deprived of his personal liberty save in accordance with law.

2° Upon complaint being made by or on behalf of any person to the High Court or any judge thereof alleging that such person is being unlawfully detained, the High Court and any and every judge thereof to whom such complaint is made shall forthwith enquire into the said complaint and may order the person in whose custody such person is detained to produce the body of such person before the High Court on a named day and to certify in writing the grounds of his detention, and the High Court shall, upon the body of such person being produced before that Court and after giving the person in whose custody he is detained an opportunity of justifying the detention, order the release of such person from such detention unless satisfied that he is being detained in accordance with the law.


3° Where the body of a person alleged to be unlawfully detained is produced before the High Court in pursuance of an order in that behalf made under this section and that Court is satisfied that such person is being detained in accordance with a law but that such law is invalid having regard to the provisions of this Constitution, the High Court shall refer the question of the validity of such law to the Court of Appeal by way of case stated and may, at the time of such reference or at any time thereafter, allow the said person to be at liberty on such bail and subject to such conditions as the High Court shall fix until the Court of Appeal has determined the question so referred to it.


4° The High Court before which the body of a person alleged to be unlawfully detained is to be produced in pursuance of an order in that behalf made under this section shall, if the President of the High Court or, if he is not available, the senior judge of that Court who is available so directs in respect of any particular case, consist of three judges and shall, in every other case, consist of one judge only.
Perhaps we should print a copy of the Constitution out and forward it onto SVUH to remind them of that point!
 

Emily Davison

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The girl was reviewed by two psychs. The first signed the order and detained her, and the second determined that she did not meet the criteria for detention under the MH Act 2001.
And this is what they threatened Ms. Y with. Sectioning. Doctors imposing their will on you when you are most vulnerable. At least in this latest case the girl was able to escape from them. Imagine the thought processes that goes into literally locking up a pregnant young girl by using the law against her. And one wonders how many other cases there are that we don't hear anything about.
 

Emily Davison

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How do we know she's not mentally ill? Are you a psychiatrist and have you examined the girl?
From the article:

In the case, which was before the courts last year, an order was made to detain the girl on the evidence of a psychiatrist who said that while the child was at risk of self-harm and suicide as a result of the pregnancy, “this could be managed by treatment and that termination of pregnancy was not the solution for all the child’s problems at this stage”.

A few days later, however, a second psychiatrist said although the “young girl” presented as being depressed “there was no evidence of a psychological disorder”.
 


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