The absurd populist and revisionist fallacy that Hitler was a Socialist.

Toasty

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You've all read about it, it seems to have originated from the US in the last decade or 2, possibly something that emerged in the post-9/11 political and social wasteland. The idea that Hitler was a socialist and that Nazi Germany was a socialist state is absurd in the extreme and seems to me to be a rather extreme example of deflection and projection.

Some right-leaning conservatives simply can't deal with the fact that when you take their core ideologies of patriotism and robust militarism far enough you get to somewhere like Germany in the 1930's so they simply deflect it to the opposition. It's spawned a whole populist "belief" that fascism is in fact a left-wing ideology. Their main card to play is "National Socialism" - a term invented by Goebbels to simply make the Nazi ideology more palatable to the masses. He was a master of Propaganda and an even greater master of BS.

It's quite simply a divisive and sinister lie and it needs to stop.
 


between the bridges

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Somewans been on the buckie lollies...
 

talkingshop

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You've all read about it, it seems to have originated from the US in the last decade or 2, possibly something that emerged in the post-9/11 political and social wasteland. The idea that Hitler was a socialist and that Nazi Germany was a socialist state is absurd in the extreme and seems to me to be a rather extreme example of deflection and projection.

Some right-leaning conservatives simply can't deal with the fact that when you take their core ideologies of patriotism and robust militarism far enough you get to somewhere like Germany in the 1930's so they simply deflect it to the opposition. It's spawned a whole populist "belief" that fascism is in fact a left-wing ideology. Their main card to play is "National Socialism" - a term invented by Goebbels to simply make the Nazi ideology more palatable to the masses. He was a master of Propaganda and an even greater master of BS.

It's quite simply a divisive and sinister lie and it needs to stop.
Depends on your definition of "fascism". Most people mean authoritarian backed up by violence. In that sense Stalin, although left-wing, was every bit as much of a fascist.
 

Fritzbox

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You've all read about it, it seems to have originated from the US in the last decade or 2, possibly something that emerged in the post-9/11 political and social wasteland. The idea that Hitler was a socialist and that Nazi Germany was a socialist state is absurd in the extreme and seems to me to be a rather extreme example of deflection and projection.

Some right-leaning conservatives simply can't deal with the fact that when you take their core ideologies of patriotism and robust militarism far enough you get to somewhere like Germany in the 1930's so they simply deflect it to the opposition. It's spawned a whole populist "belief" that fascism is in fact a left-wing ideology. Their main card to play is "National Socialism" - a term invented by Goebbels to simply make the Nazi ideology more palatable to the masses. He was a master of Propaganda and an even greater master of BS.

It's quite simply a divisive and sinister lie and it needs to stop.
I don't think anyone mistakes Hitler for a socialist. He was definitely a vegetarian though...
 

JimmyFoley

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You've all read about it, it seems to have originated from the US in the last decade or 2, possibly something that emerged in the post-9/11 political and social wasteland. The idea that Hitler was a socialist and that Nazi Germany was a socialist state is absurd in the extreme and seems to me to be a rather extreme example of deflection and projection.

Some right-leaning conservatives simply can't deal with the fact that when you take their core ideologies of patriotism and robust militarism far enough you get to somewhere like Germany in the 1930's so they simply deflect it to the opposition. It's spawned a whole populist "belief" that fascism is in fact a left-wing ideology. Their main card to play is "National Socialism" - a term invented by Goebbels to simply make the Nazi ideology more palatable to the masses. He was a master of Propaganda and an even greater master of BS.

It's quite simply a divisive and sinister lie and it needs to stop.
The Nazis, particularly in the beginning, were socialists. They favoured state management of the economy to improve the life of the Volk.

Hitler didn't really give a bollix, though. He told the minister in charge of economic affairs just to get on and do what he needed to do.
 

Trainwreck

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Depends on your definition of "fascism". Most people mean authoritarian backed up by violence. In that sense Stalin, although left-wing, was every bit as much of a fascist.
Fascism isn't a concept that sits on a spectrum along with socialism. It makes no sense to say "he can't have been a Socialist, because he was a fascist". The two aren't mutually exclusive.


The entire Fascism versus Socialism, or Right versus Left, is pure Marxist invention.


There is collectivist, which includes everything from communism, through Socialism, Marxism, whatever and into national socialism etc.

Then on the other side there is liberal, which broadly includes western democracy (still, though that is falling to collectivism).


That is it. What mist refer to as "the Right" (which is invariably Socialists) usually just means there Socialist brethren that have a Nationalist bent. But fundamentally both Socialist, both insist that individual rights and freedoms need subjugation to society as a whole. This is indisputable fact.



Then you have the concept of Fascism, which is merely dictatorial, totalitarian controlling rule. And as everyone can freely observe, all the collectivist ideologies from National Socialism (Naziism) through Italian Fascimo, to Marxist, Maoist, Communists and Socialists vere to fascism. It is because you have to enforce collectivism, there is no other way.


But to your point, Hitler was totally Socialist. His entire belief system was founded on socialist principles. The collective before the individual. The curtailment of all individual rights, for the betterment of the collective - be it economic (via nationalisation and central planning and control), through media (strict state controlled media), social (do I even need to give you examples).


Just because it was Nationalist, rather than Internationalist socialism makes no difference.
 

GDPR

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Hitler had only got one ball, (or so I believe ....)

Goering had two, but rather small
Himmler was very sim'lar, but Goebbals had no balls at all.
 

Trainwreck

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The Nazis, particularly in the beginning, were socialists. They favoured state management of the economy to improve the life of the Volk.

Hitler didn't really give a bollix, though. He told the minister in charge of economic affairs just to get on and do what he needed to do.
"in the beginning".


Please enlighten us how the Nazi regime became more and more liberal over time. How they rolled back their earlier tendency to subjugate individual freedoms for collective social objectives...
 

former wesleyan

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….then he went mad.

Ken.
 

razorblade

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I dont think when you're a dictator what your political ideology is really matters, all they care about is retaining power at the end of the day, and will kill any political opposition that threatans their power regardless of ideology, there was little difference between Hitler and Stalin both mad bloodthirsty dictators, who both murdered and caused great human suffering to millions, and both thankfully confined to history, never to darken this planet ever again.
 

JimmyFoley

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"in the beginning".


Please enlighten us how the Nazi regime became more and more liberal over time. How they rolled back their earlier tendency to subjugate individual freedoms for collective social objectives...
Em, did you read my comment in full? I just did.

Once Hitler took control of Germany, he didn't care how the economy functioned. Provided that he had what he needed, he just wasn't interested.

If Adam Smith had come along and told him that the best way to build up the might of the Reich was to embrace a laissez faire approach, he'd have done just that. It's the same as his attitude to religion: no one knows precisely what he had in mind, probably because he didn't know himself!
 

A Voice

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You've all read about it, it seems to have originated from the US in the last decade or 2, possibly something that emerged in the post-9/11 political and social wasteland. The idea that Hitler was a socialist and that Nazi Germany was a socialist state is absurd in the extreme and seems to me to be a rather extreme example of deflection and projection.

Some right-leaning conservatives simply can't deal with the fact that when you take their core ideologies of patriotism and robust militarism far enough you get to somewhere like Germany in the 1930's so they simply deflect it to the opposition. It's spawned a whole populist "belief" that fascism is in fact a left-wing ideology. Their main card to play is "National Socialism" - a term invented by Goebbels to simply make the Nazi ideology more palatable to the masses. He was a master of Propaganda and an even greater master of BS.

It's quite simply a divisive and sinister lie and it needs to stop.
Hayek, you'll find, was a proponent of this view. (b. 1899)
 

razorblade

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Btw Hitler persecuted Communists and social democrats, so the notion that he was a socialist doesnt really hold up, Tony Benn was a socialist does that mean that he was comparable to Hitler, Hitler persecuted anyone that threatened his rule regardless of political believes.
 

Ardillaun

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If you take a three axis graph of his policies, were they with the socialists?

1. Capitalist - somewhat, so no on that.

2. Authoritarian - strongly, beyond the socialists.

3. Nativist - other side of the park from socialists.
 

Jezza15

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Nazi was short for National Socialist. The Nazi state featured a centrally planned command economy. It was considered the responsibility of the state and employers to achieve full employment whether or not the market required it. The state also proscribed behaviour that was considered detrimental to the public good.
Nazism was a form of socialism.
 

flavirostris

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He kind of was but his socialism had an extreme nationalist flavour.. hence 'national socialism'.
 

Catalpast

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When where did Hitler ever claim to be a 'Socialist'?

He claimed to be a National Socialist
 

GDPR

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You guys would fail your history O'level if you spouted this crap on here in your coursework or exams.

There is a lot more to Socialism than simply believing in a planned economy.

And what that content is Hitler was totally opposed to.

Embarrassing level of ignorance displayed here.
 

gleeful

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You've all read about it, it seems to have originated from the US in the last decade or 2, possibly something that emerged in the post-9/11 political and social wasteland. The idea that Hitler was a socialist and that Nazi Germany was a socialist state is absurd in the extreme and seems to me to be a rather extreme example of deflection and projection.

Some right-leaning conservatives simply can't deal with the fact that when you take their core ideologies of patriotism and robust militarism far enough you get to somewhere like Germany in the 1930's so they simply deflect it to the opposition. It's spawned a whole populist "belief" that fascism is in fact a left-wing ideology. Their main card to play is "National Socialism" - a term invented by Goebbels to simply make the Nazi ideology more palatable to the masses. He was a master of Propaganda and an even greater master of BS.

It's quite simply a divisive and sinister lie and it needs to stop.
By modern US Republican standards Hitler was a socialist. As were Gengus Khan and the jack the ripper.
 


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