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The American President


ANONG

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
419
Now that the American Presidential election is upon us it got me wondering about our own President, Taoiseach and Oireachtas. Should our "Constitutional Convention be looking at our whole system of government.
I think we should look to America and France and adopt a system were we directly elect the leader of our government what they call President but we can call Taoiseach. To me the American system serves them well as the President is forced to work with the US Congress which may or may not be controlled by his own party and has to
work very hard to get consensus unlike our current system where the governing parties can force everything through using the whip system.
The last 4 years of austerity and the previous 20 years of boom and bust have shown me that our politicians are not up to the job of running our country properly so maybe it is time for us to enforce checks and balances on them. Only allow our Taoiseach to serve 2 terms and make him / her directly accountable to the people.

What do the rest of you think / any ideas?
 

potholedogger

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
1,238
Now that the American Presidential election is upon us it got me wondering about our own President, Taoiseach and Oireachtas. Should our "Constitutional Convention be looking at our whole system of government.
I think we should look to America and France and adopt a system were we directly elect the leader of our government what they call President but we can call Taoiseach. To me the American system serves them well as the President is forced to work with the US Congress which may or may not be controlled by his own party and has to
work very hard to get consensus unlike our current system where the governing parties can force everything through using the whip system.
The last 4 years of austerity and the previous 20 years of boom and bust have shown me that our politicians are not up to the job of running our country properly so maybe it is time for us to enforce checks and balances on them. Only allow our Taoiseach to serve 2 terms and make him / her directly accountable to the people.

What do the rest of you think / any ideas?
You seem to blame all politicians equally? Surely Fianna Fáil were to blame?
 

Skeptic Angel

Active member
Joined
Jul 17, 2008
Messages
296
If I was going to copy somebody else's political system it would not the USA's. Seems to be constantly deadlocked, even more in thrall to big business than ours and with a very small range of political voices.

No I prefer the parliamentary system (though maybe it's just because that's what I'm used to). Look what you get with executive presidencies: Sarkozy, Putin, Bush 1&2...
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Now that the American Presidential election is upon us it got me wondering about our own President, Taoiseach and Oireachtas. Should our "Constitutional Convention be looking at our whole system of government.
I think we should look to America and France and adopt a system were we directly elect the leader of our government what they call President but we can call Taoiseach. To me the American system serves them well as the President is forced to work with the US Congress which may or may not be controlled by his own party and has to
work very hard to get consensus unlike our current system where the governing parties can force everything through using the whip system.
The last 4 years of austerity and the previous 20 years of boom and bust have shown me that our politicians are not up to the job of running our country properly so maybe it is time for us to enforce checks and balances on them. Only allow our Taoiseach to serve 2 terms and make him / her directly accountable to the people.

What do the rest of you think / any ideas?
One problem with the US system is that while the people get to elect the President, they do not really elect the government, given that the cabinet are entirely Presidential nominations approved by the Senate; generally the cabinet members have not been elected to any office by the public.
 

Septic Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
428
One problem with the US system is that while the people get to elect the President, they do not really elect the government, given that the cabinet are entirely Presidential nominations approved by the Senate; generally the cabinet members have not been elected to any office by the public.
True, it's an inherently undemocratic process. Also the power that the President actually holds is grossly overstated in public discourse.
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Now that the American Presidential election is upon us it got me wondering about our own President, Taoiseach and Oireachtas. Should our "Constitutional Convention be looking at our whole system of government.
I think we should look to America and France and adopt a system were we directly elect the leader of our government what they call President but we can call Taoiseach. To me the American system serves them well as the President is forced to work with the US Congress which may or may not be controlled by his own party and has to
work very hard to get consensus unlike our current system where the governing parties can force everything through using the whip system.
The last 4 years of austerity and the previous 20 years of boom and bust have shown me that our politicians are not up to the job of running our country properly so maybe it is time for us to enforce checks and balances on them. Only allow our Taoiseach to serve 2 terms and make him / her directly accountable to the people.

What do the rest of you think / any ideas?
I think we should abolish the whip system and have the power of recall.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
True, it's an inherently undemocratic process. Also the power that the President actually holds is grossly overstated in public discourse.
Checks and balances to the point of paralysis is what it often looks like to an outsider. On top of which, even a newly-elected first-term president is almost immediately thrust into election mode.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
One problem with the US system is that while the people get to elect the President, they do not really elect the government, given that the cabinet are entirely Presidential nominations approved by the Senate; generally the cabinet members have not been elected to any office by the public.
And look how our current system works with an unelected civil servant Sir Humphrey Appleby basically running the department for a minister who is still essentially a glorified town councilor and cumman chairman who has to run down to his constituency every other day to press the flesh at a funeral. Why not have person appointed to for the duration of the President's term to do the top job?
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Checks and balances to the point of paralysis is what it often looks like to an outsider. On top of which, even a newly-elected first-term president is almost immediately thrust into election mode.
Politicians no matter what the system or set up are always in election mode.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
And look how our current system works with an unelected civil servant Sir Humphrey Appleby basically running the department for a minister who is still essentially a glorified town councilor and cumman chairman who has to run down to his constituency every other day to press the flesh at a funeral. Why not have person appointed to for the duration of the President's term to do the top job?
Do you imagine that Hilary Clinton doesn't have an equivalent telling her what she can and cannot do?
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
Politicians no matter what the system or set up are always in election mode.
Yes, but it's a lot more explicit in a presidential-style system.
 

Dasayev

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
2,825
If I was going to copy somebody else's political system it would not the USA's. Seems to be constantly deadlocked, even more in thrall to big business than ours and with a very small range of political voices.

No I prefer the parliamentary system (though maybe it's just because that's what I'm used to). Look what you get with executive presidencies: Sarkozy, Putin, Bush 1&2...
But our own system is not great either. Our House of Representatives is a rubber stamp, and our Senate is completely pointless. It doesn't produce good government or leaders, and things such as time served, being a good party man, and even geographical considerations seem to matter more than ability when promotions come about.

I think the American system could work if it wasn't so distorted by campaign financing.
 

ANONG

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
419
You seem to blame all politicians equally? Surely Fianna Fáil were to blame?
yes Fianna Fail, PD's and Greens were responsible but Fine Gael and Labour have failed miserably to deal with the situation since they came into power so maybe we need to change to system altogether.
 

Hitch 22

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 26, 2011
Messages
5,220
Do you imagine that Hilary Clinton doesn't have an equivalent telling her what she can and cannot do?
If Bill Clinton could get her to suck his c*ck then do you really think someone could order her around in her department? :lol:
 

ANONG

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
419
One problem with the US system is that while the people get to elect the President, they do not really elect the government, given that the cabinet are entirely Presidential nominations approved by the Senate; generally the cabinet members have not been elected to any office by the public.
To be quite honest I do not really have a problem with that as it allows a strong leader to select the best person for the job and it would make it easier to fire them if they are not up to it.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,230
To be quite honest I do not really have a problem with that as it allows a strong leader to select the best person for the job and it would make it easier to fire them if they are not up to it.
Strong leaders selecting the best people for the job is a concept that sends shivers up my spine.
 
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