The ARTICLE 50 TASK FORCE thread - discuss negotiations from the EU / Barnier perspective

robut

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The EU ARTICLE 50 TASK FORCE thread - discuss negotiations from the EU / Barnier perspective

Popcorn at the ready .. the long 2 year or more top billing fight - EU v UK is about to begin with Article 50 being triggered this wed. 29th March 2017

I thought it might be an interesting idea to have a thread mainly discussing things ( as much as we can ) from the EU / Barnier perspective as talks and deals begin.

Michel Barnier recently tweeted:

My speech on is on our website which will be our tool for transparency and public debate on negotiations
https://ec.europa.eu/info/departments/taskforce-article-50-negotiations-united-kingdom_en

My view is these negotiations are existential for the EU as an entity. Even if the EU wanted to give the UK the best deal ie everything it has now + dump regs + control imigration / movement of peeps - BUT outside the EU .. The EU couldnt do this, if it did it would cause the collapse of the EU as other countries would look at doing same.

EU also has issue with uneasy EU feelings in other member countries. They might be stedfast now, but when UK makes deal demands will they look at these demands and go .. hmmm, we would like some of that too?

So - maybe here if we could take off our Irish perspective glasses and if possible pop on our Europe/ EU perspective glasses and try and discuss points from the EU perspective in these negotiations. Loads of other threads for the Irish and UK view ..

Barniers Twitter account if you wish to follow:

https://twitter.com/michelbarnier
 
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Analyzer

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I get the feeling this is going to end up like Bank bondholders for IRL again.

We get shafted, & the gombeen establishment will present it as "we are being good obedient gobsh1tes Europeans" all over again.

Charlie Flanagan is the MoFA, which mwans that we are phucked. He will apologise in advance for the Irish people having any stake in any of this.
 

robut

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Germany Said to Seek Early U.K. Brexit Pledge to Pay Its EU Bill

A key German priority when Brexit talks get under way is locking in an early commitment by the U.K. to pay its European Union bills, two people familiar with the government’s strategy said.

While the exact amount owed by the U.K. can be agreed later, Germany wants Prime Minister Theresa May’s government to acknowledge at the start that it can’t dodge what it owes, according to the people, who asked not be identified discussing private deliberations.
 

robut

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Europe to block Brexit deal unless EU citizens who enter in next two years can stay, Guy Verhofstadt says | The Independent

MEPs will block any Brexit deal unless EU citizens who move to the UK up to 2019 are granted the right to stay and work, European Parliament's chief negotiator has said.

Guy Verhofstadt vowed to fight any attempt by Britain to set tomorrow – the day for triggering Article 50 – as the “cut-off date” for the free movement of people.

Both the Parliament and the Commission’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, are concerned by reports that Number 10 will designate March 29, 2017 as the landmark date.
 

gatsbygirl20

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I think the UK will pay this and move on. It's the least of its troubles really.

it is just the optics--and that crazy macho pose taken by the tabloids and their readers' comments section which will brook no "backsliding" and wants to root out closet "remoaners" in government "Tell the unelected bureaucrats to stick their bill where the sun don't shine"...etc

Expectations should have been properly managed in the lead-up months, and the need for some compromises with the real world should have been explained. The collision with reality will be hard, and every tactical compromise will be seen as a betrayal

Fintan O'Toole, in an otherwise rather fanciful article in the IT, used the sentence "After the rapture, comes the reckoning"
 

Ireniall

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Interesting there that the Socialists won't accept discrimination between EU citizens. This has implications for the CTA between the UK and Ireland if they are entirely serious about it. Perhaps it was just a general statement but if the CTA is to survive Brexit, which most commentators seem to think will happen, then the rest of the EU will have to accept inferior terms of entry to the UK for their citizens compared to the Irish. It's a really basic principle there being somewhat set aside and I wouldn't agree to it if I was anything other then what I am -an Irishman.
 

Ireniall

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I think the UK will pay this and move on. It's the least of its troubles really.

it is just the optics--and that crazy macho pose taken by the tabloids and their readers' comments section which will brook no "backsliding" and wants to root out closet "remoaners" in government "Tell the unelected bureaucrats to stick their bill where the sun don't shine"...etc

Expectations should have been properly managed in the lead-up months, and the need for some compromises with the real world should have been explained. The collision with reality will be hard, and every tactical compromise will be seen as a betrayal

Fintan O'Toole, in an otherwise rather fanciful article in the IT, used the sentence "After the rapture, comes the reckoning"
Camerons calling of the referendum in the first place seems to fit in with a certain tendency for the British to overplay their hand in order to put as much pressure on the EU as possible forgetting the potential consequences for themselves in the process. What a goddam mess.
 

robut

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Analyzer

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The EU does not give a sh1t about the remaining millions in the empire. The nEU imperial "leadership" ignores the people frequently, & without hesitation.

For the imperialist racket fans, asking the people for their consent on anything is unacceptable.
 

firefly123

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I get the feeling my grandkids will be seeing that photo in their history books!
 

robut

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A Chamberlain moment ???

"Peace in our time" was the phrase back then, what phrase goes with this picture??
 
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A Chamberlain moment ???

"Peace in our time" was the phrase back then, what phrase goes with this picture??
"Not known at this address."
 

Trainwreck

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I think the UK will pay this and move on. It's the least of its troubles really.
I predict the opposite.

The UK surely owes the EU nothing. It has been the second largest net contributor and I can't see them buckling to fork out even more, to fund current expenditures.
 

SPN

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This article pretty much sets out the landscape before the slaughter begins.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/brexit-negotiations-eight-key-points-you-need-to-know?CMP=fb_gu

It promises to be one of the most complicated negotiations in history. Whitehall civil servants are said to have identified 700 different issues of administrative overlap that need to be untangled before Britain can cut itself loose from the European Union. But cutting through the legal verbiage, it is possible to reduce them to eight main political sticking points:
 

SPN

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I predict the opposite.

The UK surely owes the EU nothing. It has been the second largest net contributor and I can't see them buckling to fork out even more, to fund current expenditures.
There is something of the order of £50 Billion of commitments the UK has already made.

They committed to it. They got/get/will get the benefits of it. They must pay what they agreed to pay.

Simples.
 
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I predict the opposite.

The UK surely owes the EU nothing. It has been the second largest net contributor and I can't see them buckling to fork out even more, to fund current expenditures.
The UK has agreed spending commitments going into the future. They have signed off on their commitment to these EU budgetary line items.
 

Spanner Island

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I get the feeling this is going to end up like Bank bondholders for IRL again.

We get shafted, & the gombeen establishment will present it as "we are being good obedient gobsh1tes Europeans" all over again.

Charlie Flanagan is the MoFA, which mwans that we are phucked. He will apologise in advance for the Irish people having any stake in any of this.
Have you got any realistic and viable 'solutions' to anything based on our current predicament?

You're one tedious bore these days... which is a shame as you used to make some valid points... once upon a time.
 


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