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The Australian Same-Sex Marriage Referendum Thread

O

Oscurito

Australia is going to hold in February 2017 what we held in May 2015 - a referendum to legalize civil marriage for same sex couples.

We had to do it due to our constitutional set-up but it seems that the Canberra government is going for the referendum option for entirely political reasons. The parliament could simply pass the measure but instead, everyone will get to decide whether or not a small number of people should get equal recognition for their relationships.

I have concerns about this approach - especially in a country like Australia where political discourse is very often crude and disregarding of women and ethnic or religious minorities. This campaign could turn into a tidal wave of homophobia from certain quarters. I think in the end it will be passed but a lot of vulnerable people will probably have to endure daily assaults on their whole sense of identity in the meantime.

Welcome to Aussie-style democracy, folks.

Australia to hold vote on same-sex marriage - RTÉ News
 


derryman

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Joined
Sep 17, 2011
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10,621
Australia is going to hold in February 2017 what we held in May 2015 - a referendum to legalize civil marriage for same sex couples.

We had to do it due to our constitutional set-up but it seems that the Canberra government is going for the referendum option for entirely political reasons. The parliament could simply pass the measure but instead, everyone will get to decide whether or not a small number of people should get equal recognition for their relationships.

I have concerns about this approach - especially in a country like Australia where political discourse is very often crude and disregarding of women and ethnic or religious minorities. This campaign could turn into a tidal wave of homophobia from certain quarters. I think in the end it will be passed but a lot of vulnerable people will probably have to endure daily assaults on their whole sense of identity in the meantime.

Welcome to Aussie-style democracy, folks.

Australia to hold vote on same-sex marriage - RTÉ News
Australia could teach Ireland a great deal about democracy. But I suspect you know that. One thing I do know of Australians is that they won't be led by nose by an establishment biased media. They have heart and soul.
 

Roll_On

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I think it's a mistake. Have you ever been to Australia?

With the exception of Sydney and Melbourne it makes the Southern US and Northern Ireland look like shining beacons of modernity, intelligence and open mindedness.

They aren't to be trusted at the ballot box, neither is Ireland mind, but we're a bit more worldly in all fairness.
 
O

Oscurito

Australia could teach Ireland a great deal about democracy. But I suspect you know that. One thing I do know of Australians is that they won't be led by nose by an establishment biased media. They have heart and soul.
Those assertions are meaningless unless you give some real world examples as to what you mean. You should also define what you mean by "establishment media".
 

Cruimh

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You should also define what you mean by "establishment media".
I'm guessing here, but In Ireland the Media and increasingly the Establishment are no longer in thrall to the RCC. Gone are the days when the Church decided what was acceptable for the media to report to the people.... As when McQuaid managed to stop Pictures of any more children being exported from Ireland via Shannon Airport....

In March 1950 the New York Times published a photograph of six children departing from Shannon Airport for adoption by American couples. The photo was accompanied by a story about the children's origins and backgrounds and details of their adoption by American families. (15) This press attention, coming on the heels of earlier news accounts in the foreign press of wealthy American businessmen flying to Ireland specifically to adopt Irish babies, prompted Archbishop McQuaid to demand suspension of overseas adoptions until his staff could fully consider the issue. (16) He also instructed his leading advisor, Cecil Barrett, to initiate a ban on publicity at Shannon Airport. (17) At the same time Department of Health officials, who heretofore had played only a negligible role in the overseas adoption process, raised alarming questions about the " ... character, suitability and religion" of potential adopters who were able to remove children from the state without undergoing a vetting or screening process, and seemingly without following U.S. immigration laws. Yet, it was not these practices in themselves, but the international press that the adoptions attracted, that caused concern and embarrassment among Church and government officials. On the other hand, it is a testament to McQuaid's influence that the publicity black-out remained unchallenged domestically for almost two years.
Foreign adoptions and the evolution of Irish adoption policy, 1945-52.
Journal of Social History, Winter, 2002, by Moira J. Maguire

The "Good Old Days" for the lay pharisees.....
 

eoghanacht

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As long as its just Aussie gay's and lesbians being allowed marry other Aussies.

We must stridently resist any sort of result that would allow Aussie's marry outside their own species.
 

Half Nelson

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Will the Irish get to vote.... again?
 

eoghanacht

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Those assertions are meaningless unless you give some real world examples as to what you mean. You should also define what you mean by "establishment media".

Don't mind him it was the free ice cream that swayed the undecided in our ref, or did you not hear?
 

GDPR

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Marriage is an institution of sexual reproduction. "Gay marriage" is utter nonsense, as two men cannot produce a child. Hopefully, the Australians will not be herded into nonsense by Oligarch money, as the Irish in the 26 counties were. The Unionists maintain the proper Gaelic view of marriage.
 

A Voice

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I think it's a mistake. Have you ever been to Australia?

With the exception of Sydney and Melbourne it makes the Southern US and Northern Ireland look like shining beacons of modernity, intelligence and open mindedness.

They aren't to be trusted at the ballot box, neither is Ireland mind, but we're a bit more worldly in all fairness.
? ! ? :lol:
 

livingstone

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Happily, since this isn't a constitutional amendment, it seems unlikely that the debate will get bogged down with 'if you pass this, the Government will never, ever be able to ban commercial surrogacy' nonsense.

Hopefully it will be a more sensible debate of whether or not marriage, should be open to people regardless of gender in recognition of the fact that there is nothing fundamental to the rights or responsibilities of marriage that cannot be fulfilled by a gay couple and there is no harm arising from giving gay couples access to marriage.
 

GDPR

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in recognition of the fact that there is nothing fundamental to the rights or responsibilities of marriage that cannot be fulfilled by a gay couple
Except what marriage is all about - the production of children.
 
O

Oscurito

I'm guessing here, but In Ireland the Media and increasingly the Establishment are no longer in thrall to the RCC. Gone are the days when the Church decided what was acceptable for the media to report to the people.... As when McQuaid managed to stop Pictures of any more children being exported from Ireland via Shannon Airport....



Foreign adoptions and the evolution of Irish adoption policy, 1945-52.
Journal of Social History, Winter, 2002, by Moira J. Maguire

The "Good Old Days" for the lay pharisees.....
I have an idea what the term in general means. I'm looking for Derryman to put some substance to his argument and list the Australian media he regards as being "establishment media". I'm pretty sure he can't do that.

It's a Trumpesque stance. Any media that doesn't reflect his view on all major issues are doing it because they're in it for the power, sticking with the elite etc. etc. Heaven forbid that anyone might dare to suggest that he's just wrong!
 
O

Oscurito

Marriage is an institution of sexual reproduction. "Gay marriage" is utter nonsense, as two men cannot produce a child. Hopefully, the Australians will not be herded into nonsense by Oligarch money, as the Irish in the 26 counties were. The Unionists maintain the proper Gaelic view of marriage.
How about we use this thread to simply compare and contrast the Irish and Australian campaigns rather than engaging in an endless head-butting I'm-right-no-I'm-right exchange? After all the anti-SSM points don't really apply in Ireland any more. The pro-marriage equality side won the arguments with some ease and I don't see the point of rehashing discredited viewpoints.
 

GDPR

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Production of children is neither a right nor responsibility of marriage.
The production of children is the whole right and responsibility of marriage. Without that, it makes no sense to stop anybody getting married, including fathers and daughters, or even a father with all his children, or even a father and a mother with all their children. If marriage is only about love, then why not? They could well all love each other.
 

GDPR

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How about we use this thread to simply compare and contrast the Irish and Australian campaigns rather than engaging in an endless head-butting I'm-right-no-I'm-right exchange? After all the anti-SSM points don't really apply in Ireland any more. The pro-marriage equality side won the arguments with some ease and I don't see the point of rehashing discredited viewpoints.
The 26 country free state is a non-state. Nothing pertaining to its non-laws makes any difference in the world. The Irish are mostly frightened sheep who will do anything for a pat on the head. So let's not give their "decisions" any more credit than they are due. Besides, part of the Irish people maintain the proper view of marriage, i.e. those Irish in the six counties.
 


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