The "authoritarian left": a place in Irish politics?

Lúidín

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Sic Tranny: The trouble with the "left" is that many can barely articulate a sentence never mind an idea that does not blame someone else. The people who represent such views are also very bad for optics and are characterised by many as nutters or just plain unpleasant.
OK so, you won't sign my character reference.
 


seabhac siulach

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I can't say that I've heard the Front National in France being called left-wing before.
Left authoritarian would surely be the traditional communist parties aligned with Moscow/Beijing?
The National Front in France has leftist economic policies, but is to the right socially, hence left authoritarian. To lazily call it far-right disguises its left-leaning (populist) policies in terms of taxation, public spending etc.
 

seabhac siulach

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There was a description of this research a while back up on politicalreform.ie, which would fill up in some details compared to the linked newspaper piece linked. The actual research article itself was actually free to download for a while (no longer unfortunately). The axes seem to be left/right on economic issues and an authoritarian/conservative to liberal spectrum on social/cultural issues (things like role of the churches in education, abortion, immigration etc. are mentioned). In economic terms, Sinn Féin does fall neatly in the recent European "populist" (seems to be the pejorative word-du-jour in political science) parties category. It's atypical in social terms though being very much liberal and immigration friendly, which is perhaps why it has mostly resisted the pejorative "populist" label.

Politics has become a lot more volatile. Traditional political parties across Europe have been becoming hollowed out for a long time (lower and lower numbers of actually signed-up members and more state party funding), with electorates becoming somewhat disaffected with and disconnected from traditional parties, which makes them vulnerable in certain senses. It's interesting that primarily internet-based parties/movement like Macron's in France and the Five Star Movement Italy can pop up and gain a significant share of seats. Even a similar pattern could be argued for Corbin's support within Labour in the UK. We even had an abortive attempt along those lines in the run up to the 2011 GE here with "Democracy Now" with a few recognizable names: Eamon Dunphy and Fintan O'Toole (though chickening out eventually). But probably shows how in the right circumstances how a ragtag internet movement coalescing around a few household names could take a big chunk of seats with the right message and policies, even in Ireland. I suspect the media would be very hostile to a left authoritarian message though.
Re Sinn Féin, this suggests that this party is forstalling the growth of anti-immigrant sentiment, by being the resident nationalistic "populist" party. By filling this "populist" gap, it leaves no space for more reactionary groups.

The idea of a primarily internet-based parties/movement in Ireland is interesting. However one must ask why this has not been seen here yet? Clientelist political system?
 

GDPR

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This party might be described as 'authortoritarian left'.

Communist Party of Ireland / Páirtí Cumannach na hÉireann
I have actually met their General Sectary a handful of times in their shop in Dublin and I found him an incredibly warm, intelligent and humble man. I cannot imagine him being really authoritarian unlike Richard Boyd Barret and it has to said Gerry Adams. I agree with 80 per cent of what the CPI has to say but unlike the Trots and the Shinners I believe them to be 100 per cent sincere. They have a lot worthwhile to say but because of their name I cannot see them getting anywhere here. To many Irish Leftists have these Cold War fantasies of the Soviet Union and the People's Democracies being utterly horrific when in many ways they were brilliantly wonderful though of course they did have evil aspects to them. I cant see the CPI replicating those evil aspects though in a Socialist Ireland (unlike the Trots).
 

sic transit

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OK so, you won't sign my character reference.
Well I don't know you and I generally don't do references but your juvenile messing with my username means you're not off to a good start!
 

The Dark Knight Forever

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"authoritarian left" is a correct label, just today the "authoritarian left" shown they don,t believe in free speech or freedom of assembly for anyone who wants to publicly discuss/debate Immigration policy .



 

Gin Soaked

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Perhaps they don't vote as they don't see that any of the parties represent their views? 31% of the electorate would appear to be unrepresented, if the article is to be believed.
If Auth-left is defined as pro spending and taxation and just being conservative on immigrants (so sceptical on the EU), Is that, basically SF?

Not SF bashing, but they know their base is not that pro immigration.
 

jmcc

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Well it is an article in the "Irish" Times. It doesn't really reflect Ireland or the views of Irish people. It is a small clique of self-centred people with an overweaning sense of entitlement. The "authoritatian" angle is just another attempt to discredit those they don't like just like they may use a phrase like 'outspoken'.
 

Mick Mac

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The traditional left has been hijacked and undermined by the trojan horse of intersectionalism and identity politics.

The traditional leftist politics was class struggle oriented not identity politics oriented.

These new developments are, in my view, a right wing trojan horse quite deliberately engineered and introduced to destroy what remains of a traditional left in disarray.

It was intended to widen and exploit internal cracks in leftist groups and to cause massive infighting in order to paralyse the ability of the left to mobilise and unite against the real class enemies of the people.

These tactics have been massively successful in destroying the effectiveness of and paralysing the left and have enabled the right to run riot.

In order to progress, the left needs to see through this tactic and reject it and return to it's traditional role fighting the class struggle.
Hard to reject the position Capitalists have built for you, and helped fund, when, well, your position and funding depends on it. It's not that they are knowingly bought. It's just they think that because there so right that the money just appears out of nowhere and the strategies and supports are all there despite the ruling elite.

It's touchingly naive to hear lawyers and other elites berating working class people as racists for simply pointing out that Capitalism wants cheap labour and no matter how brilliant and decent the cheap labour is it's still cheap labour.

But then look at the Halawa case. Some of the people most passionate about his freedom are the same people who are profiting financially from their involvement.

It's very hard to admit Ibrahim marched with the homophobes when you've got a financial or reputational (ego) stake on him and it's hard to see that you can call immigration a Capitalist tactic and still oppose racism when your entire milieu which gives you standing and frequently pays your bills is ultimately being funded by the same Capitalists.

Or did we all think the trade unions were funding the whole pro immigration lobby?
 

Mick Mac

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If Auth-left is defined as pro spending and taxation and just being conservative on immigrants (so sceptical on the EU), Is that, basically SF?

Not SF bashing, but they know their base is not that pro immigration.
No, Sinn Fein would be resolutely pro immigration because it believes that only racists could point out a flaw in the current immigration policies.

Like, if this guy was a Sinn Fein TD he'd be out in his ear for what he said.

 

Gin Soaked

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Well it is an article in the "Irish" Times. It doesn't really reflect Ireland or the views of Irish people. It is a small clique of self-centred people with an overweaning sense of entitlement. The "authoritatian" angle is just another attempt to discredit those they don't like just like they may use a phrase like 'outspoken'.
How does paying over 50% in tax and buying everything with what remains constitute "entitlement?

Because that is the reality of the IT readership.
 

Gin Soaked

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No, Sinn Fein would be resolutely pro immigration because it believes that only racists could point out a flaw in the current immigration policies.

Like, if this guy was a Sinn Fein TD he'd be out in his ear for what he said.

But is that just the rubbish all parties spout. Outside of Labour, I don't think any believe it.

FG grassroots support EU citizens coming here to WORK.

That is quite selective.
 

raetsel

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Why is this? Why such a vacuum of representation? Is left authoritarianism not a promising avenue for an ambitious politician to explore, given it chimes with 31% of the electorate and would offer a route to power (at worst in a coalition)?

We have seen such movements in other countries, e.g. France where the National Front obtained approx.35% support in the recent presidential elections. Why not in Ireland?
Because the vast majority of us are moderately sane................................
Oh. and the idea that the FN in France are economically left, is risible.
 

Plebian

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It's hilarious that the Greens and Socialist party who want to regulate society for different reasons are supposedly the most Libertarian parties.

How does Small State/No Gun Control Libertarianism fit into the equation?
 

raetsel

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It's hilarious that the Greens and Socialist party who want to regulate society for different reasons are supposedly the most Libertarian parties.

How does Small State/No Gun Control Libertarianism fit into the equation?
Says who? You cannot be libertarian and want to impose strict controls at the same time. I doubt if the Greens have ever defined themselves as libertarian - liberal on social issues certainly but this is the first time I've ever heard them described as libertarian.
 

Plebian

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Says who? You cannot be libertarian and want to impose strict controls at the same time. I doubt if the Greens have ever defined themselves as libertarian - liberal on social issues certainly but this is the first time I've ever heard them described as libertarian.
Says the political compass test... Which is why I said it was hilarious.

They're probably wrongly defining Libertarianism mostly as Social Liberalism seemingly based almost exclusively around positions on abortion.
 

TedHankey

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The political compass puts me at -2 on both axies.

Think it is calibrated at US values.
No. The parties supply information which positions them accurately on the diagram, according to the algorithm they are using. There are similar diagrams for American parties and for UK parties. If you answered the questions honestly and accurately it will position you also, closest to the party or parties that are closest to your values/outlook. If you find yourself far on the diagram from the party that you actually tend to vote for, then it might be worth delving into that parties literature...
 

Plebian

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No. The parties supply information which positions them accurately on the diagram, according to the algorithm they are using. There are similar diagrams for American parties and for UK parties. If you answered the questions honestly and accurately it will position you also, closest to the party or parties that are closest to your values/outlook. If you find yourself far on the diagram from the party that you actually tend to vote for, then it might be worth delving into that parties literature...
If you delved into the Labour party's literature pre GE 2011 then you'd find something very often at odds with the predictable past of the party.

Common sense based on parties political histories should be enough to guide people as to what to expect from parties.
 


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