The Big Lies in the 4 year plan

rockofcashel

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Jan 23, 2005
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As most people understand by now, there is so much information about this 4 year plan, that it is almost impossible to digest where it is going to go wrong, especiallyu as we don't know the actual specific Budget in a few weeks which will add clarity to what has been already said..

However, could I propose we deal with a couple of specific points and work from there

1. How or why, does it propose we pay 2006 levels of taxation, when we will be brought back to 2003 levels of income ?

2. Why, when you add up the levels of cuts (pg 110), does proposed additional net taxation amount to around 10 billion euro, when proposed cuts in public pay and services amount to around 2 billion euro?

3. How come, as exemplified by Primetime last night, under new taxation limits, will a single person on 55k, be almost 15% BETTER OFF, than a married person in a one income household?

4. Given that there will also be cuts in child benefit, does this and the situation in 3. above amount to an attack on married families over and above single people ?

These are only four anomalies.. please feel free to add more for discussion
 


Asparagus

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Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
As most people understand by now, there is so much information about this 4 year plan, that it is almost impossible to digest where it is going to go wrong, especiallyu as we don't know the actual specific Budget in a few weeks which will add clarity to what has been already said..

However, could I propose we deal with a couple of specific points and work from there

1. How or why, does it propose we pay 2006 levels of taxation, when we will be brought back to 2003 levels of income ?

2. Why, when you add up the levels of cuts (pg 110), does proposed additional net taxation amount to around 10 billion euro, when proposed cuts in public pay and services amount to around 2 billion euro?

3. How come, as exemplified by Primetime last night, under new taxation limits, will a single person on 55k, be almost 15% BETTER OFF, than a married person in a one income household?

4. Given that there will also be cuts in child benefit, does this and the situation in 3. above amount to an attack on married families over and above single people ?

These are only four anomalies.. please feel free to add more for discussion
with 2008 levels of debt and 1992 levels of employment and 1919 level of sovereignty and self determineability?
 

ManOfReason

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Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,286
The big lie is the projected 'growth' figures for the economy. When these don't appear over the next 3 to 4 years the country will still be bust and default will be inevitable.
 

taxman58

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Joined
Jul 6, 2009
Messages
102
As most people understand by now, there is so much information about this 4 year plan, that it is almost impossible to digest where it is going to go wrong, especiallyu as we don't know the actual specific Budget in a few weeks which will add clarity to what has been already said..

However, could I propose we deal with a couple of specific points and work from there

1. How or why, does it propose we pay 2006 levels of taxation, when we will be brought back to 2003 levels of income ?

2. Why, when you add up the levels of cuts (pg 110), does proposed additional net taxation amount to around 10 billion euro, when proposed cuts in public pay and services amount to around 2 billion euro?

3. How come, as exemplified by Primetime last night, under new taxation limits, will a single person on 55k, be almost 15% BETTER OFF, than a married person in a one income household?

4. Given that there will also be cuts in child benefit, does this and the situation in 3. above amount to an attack on married families over and above single people ?

These are only four anomalies.. please feel free to add more for discussion

Have you seen any basis fot 3 above as it apperas to be totally counterintuitive based on the double allowances available to a married couple.
 

showbandmanager

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Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
1,130
The 4 year plan in the national interest is actaully a 2 month re- election plan in Fianna Fail's interest.

Hit social welfare - won't vote fianna fail anyway.
Hit minimum wage - young people , lot won't vote , most won't vote Fianna Fail anyway.
Leave pensions alone - old people will vote and will vote fianna fail
Leave PS alone - con public servants that fianna fail are on their side even though FF know croke park agreement will not last.
Load a lot of the adjustments onto 2012 - 2014 so if Fianna Fail don't get elected again fine Gael and Labour will be there for the most savage cuts and both hands tied behind their backs .

Negotiate deal with IMF/EU re. banks that will leave alll the citizens of this country screwed and fg / lab taking the flak.

And the sad thing is a lot of people out there are beginning to fall for it already .
 

Tea Party Patriot

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Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,468
The 4 year plan in the national interest is actaully a 2 month re- election plan in Fianna Fail's interest.

Hit social welfare - won't vote fianna fail anyway.
Hit minimum wage - young people , lot won't vote , most won't vote Fianna Fail anyway.
Leave pensions alone - old people will vote and will vote fianna fail
Leave PS alone - con public servants that fianna fail are on their side even though FF know croke park agreement will not last.
Load a lot of the adjustments onto 2012 - 2014 so if Fianna Fail don't get elected again fine Gael and Labour will be there for the most savage cuts and both hands tied behind their backs .

Negotiate deal with IMF/EU re. banks that will leave alll the citizens of this country screwed and fg / lab taking the flak.

And the sad thing is a lot of people out there are beginning to fall for it already .
There is doubt looking at it that it leaves most of the "not so nice" stuff for the incoming government to deal with.

But there are so many holes in it that it just doesn't add up, it won't close the gap, they know that but don't want to take tough decisions.
 

FakeViking

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Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
8,932
The 4 year plan in the national interest is actaully a 2 month re- election plan in Fianna Fail's interest.

Hit social welfare - won't vote fianna fail anyway.
Hit minimum wage - young people , lot won't vote , most won't vote Fianna Fail anyway.
Leave pensions alone - old people will vote and will vote fianna fail
Leave PS alone - con public servants that fianna fail are on their side even though FF know croke park agreement will not last.
Load a lot of the adjustments onto 2012 - 2014 so if Fianna Fail don't get elected again fine Gael and Labour will be there for the most savage cuts and both hands tied behind their backs .

Negotiate deal with IMF/EU re. banks that will leave alll the citizens of this country screwed and fg / lab taking the flak.

And the sad thing is a lot of people out there are beginning to fall for it already .
Can be summarised by Delay & Pray. It's been their response to the Financial problem, and it is their response to what they see as the Electoral problem.
 

Nemi_

Active member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
252
The big lie is the projected 'growth' figures for the economy. When these don't appear over the next 3 to 4 years the country will still be bust and default will be inevitable.
I agree. The big lie is actually callling this an austerity programme, when the real austerity is when we have to pay all this extra borrowing back.

I'm reminded of that comment by the 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' guy that an asset is something that yields you an income, where a liability is something that takes money out of your pocket. We really need to put whatever resource we have into assets; instead, we're protecting our liabilities.

Is the reason these floated figures of the high interest rates expected by EU et al just a reflection of the fact that we still haven't gotten real yet? I wouldn't lend Ireland money just to leave the State pension untouched, or so we can pretend we only need to knock one euro off the minimum wage.
 

RoundBailer

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Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
23
I agree about the predicted growth and the predicted unemployment rate of 10% in 2014 (although the unemployment rate could feasibly happen due to mass emmigration).
If it was a movie script these would be Deus Ex Machina.
 

Barnacle

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Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
854
As most people understand by now, there is so much information about this 4 year plan, that it is almost impossible to digest where it is going to go wrong, especiallyu as we don't know the actual specific Budget in a few weeks which will add clarity to what has been already said..

However, could I propose we deal with a couple of specific points and work from there

1. How or why, does it propose we pay 2006 levels of taxation, when we will be brought back to 2003 levels of income ?

2. Why, when you add up the levels of cuts (pg 110), does proposed additional net taxation amount to around 10 billion euro, when proposed cuts in public pay and services amount to around 2 billion euro?

3. How come, as exemplified by Primetime last night, under new taxation limits, will a single person on 55k, be almost 15% BETTER OFF, than a married person in a one income household?

4. Given that there will also be cuts in child benefit, does this and the situation in 3. above amount to an attack on married families over and above single people ?

These are only four anomalies.. please feel free to add more for discussion
I would hazard a guess that this 15% relates to what it is now as to what it will be for the married person as opposed to what it will be for both. I would say it is something to do with the increased cut-off points and/credits.
 

powderfinger

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Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
3,350
I agree. The big lie is actually callling this an austerity programme, when the real austerity is when we have to pay all this extra borrowing back.

I'm reminded of that comment by the 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' guy that an asset is something that yields you an income, where a liability is something that takes money out of your pocket. We really need to put whatever resource we have into assets; instead, we're protecting our liabilities.

Is the reason these floated figures of the high interest rates expected by EU et al just a reflection of the fact that we still haven't gotten real yet? I wouldn't lend Ireland money just to leave the State pension untouched, or so we can pretend we only need to knock one euro off the minimum wage.
It will also insure that a credit squeeze will remain on lending to a significant cohort of the domestic business sector.
The IMF will not let the Irish banks lend out their money,unless they can do so at rates higher than the IMF's lending rate to the sovereign.
The devil will be in the detail of the banking 'firepower' loan arrangements.This is where the leverage is for the Irish people.To have the primary architectural incumbents of the Irish banking crisis leading and directing such detail is bespoke banana republicanism.
What's next? Bertie for President?
 

Asparagus

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Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
4,823
Biggest Lies

Title - National Recovery plan. Nothing about recovery in this document

Introduction - "The Plan will help dispel uncertainty and reinforce the confidence of consumers, businesses and of the international community."
 

kav0777

Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
46
Have you seen any basis fot 3 above as it apperas to be totally counterintuitive based on the double allowances available to a married couple.
Well, if you are reducing the allowances does it not stand to reason that the allowances of a single income married couple will be doubly affected?
 


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