The Border : “magical thinking”

McSlaggart

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"... but no clue on the Irish border
The EU also made it clear it expects Britain to solve the problem of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic once the UK leaves the bloc and its customs union, and has dismissed London’s proposals so far as “magical thinking”.
It wanted substance here, but it got none. “We have both stated explicitly we will not accept physical infrastructure at the border,” Ms May said – but made no new suggestion on how that might actually be made to work."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/theresa-may-s-brexit-speech-key-points-1.3230862

It is clear the British do not have a clue what to do about the Border in Northern Ireland. Nationalists are happy with the idea that it can be in the sea but this is not acceptable to Unionists.

I have not seen a Technology that will fix the numerous issues the border will cause.

Can any Unionist who does not want the border in the sea give us an idea what solution that they would propose as an alternative?
 


vivabrigada

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We're off to see the Wizard........
 

CastleRay

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"... but no clue on the Irish border
The EU also made it clear it expects Britain to solve the problem of the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic once the UK leaves the bloc and its customs union, and has dismissed London’s proposals so far as “magical thinking”.
It wanted substance here, but it got none. “We have both stated explicitly we will not accept physical infrastructure at the border,” Ms May said – but made no new suggestion on how that might actually be made to work."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/theresa-may-s-brexit-speech-key-points-1.3230862

It is clear the British do not have a clue what to do about the Border in Northern Ireland. Nationalists are happy with the idea that it can be in the sea but this is not acceptable to Unionists.

I have not seen a Technology that will fix the numerous issues the border will cause.

Can any Unionist who does not want the border in the sea give us an idea what solution that they would propose as an alternative?
Nationalists are clueless by the same reckoning.
 

hollandia

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Wrong ray. You just don't like our solution.
 

Strawberry

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Nationalists are clueless by the same reckoning.
Except they're not. Political disagreements aside, that's factually wrong - nationalists have a solution to the problems posed by the border between the UK and the Republic, ie get rid of it and have a united Ireland. Whatever flaws that solution may have, it is at least a response.

Where's the response from those who want to keep the border? What's your solution?
 

dundealing

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Except they're not. Political disagreements aside, that's factually wrong - nationalists have a solution to the problems posed by the border between the UK and the Republic, ie get rid of it and have a united Ireland. Whatever flaws that solution may have, it is at least a response.

Where's the response from those who want to keep the border? What's your solution?
They dont have , somewhere in the midst of inter cousin cousin marriages the ability to think beyond 1700 got lost
 

blinding

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The Unionists need to look at the Census .

Facts is Facts . It will take a miracle to save the Orange state .

But they are inclined to believe in that sort of outside chance.........
 

GDPR

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The Unionists need to look at the Census .

Facts is Facts . It will take a miracle to save the Orange state .

But they are inclined to believe in that sort of outside chance.........
I have a book somewhere around the house from the Edwardian period that waxes lyrical about Prods being future orientated while Catholics being present hedonist types, and how this makes the Prods so much better....But at least politically Ulster Prods tend to be massively present hedonist types.
 

Niall996

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Presumably an 'official' hard border will have to the enacted and we'll have a very healthy cross border smuggling industry going both ways. And we'll just have to lot live with it.
 

blinding

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I have a book somewhere around the house from the Edwardian period that waxes lyrical about Prods being future orientated while Catholics being present hedonist types, and how this makes the Prods so much better....But at least politically Ulster Prods tend to be massively present hedonist types.
They are certainly not “ understanding “ whether intentionally or not the Facts of the Census .
 

theloner

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The Unionists need to look at the Census .

Facts is Facts . It will take a miracle to save the Orange state .

But they are inclined to believe in that sort of outside chance.........
This is why it's puzzling, especially from the DUP point of view. Why not create a strategy of making NI more attractive to nationalists, especially with the demographics trend that is heading in only one direction. There are plenty of spineless weasel nationalists out there that would gladly wrap themselves in the Butcher's Apron with a little coaxing and encouragement. But then again, reactionary unionism isn't exactly known for its pragmatism or foresight.

Sectarianism and bigotry seems to be a Tourette's type syndrome for many within DUP circles. And when the UUP feel left-outsies, they also join the race to the bottom which ends up awfully cringeworthy and quite pathetic. Leaving TUV as my fave unionist party after Alliance.
 
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blinding

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This is why it's puzzling, especially from the DUP point of view. Why not create a strategy of making NI more attractive to nationalists, especially with the demographics trend that heading in only one direction. There are plenty of spineless weasel nationalists out there that would gladly wrap themselves in the Butcher's Apron with a little coaxing and encouragement. But then again, reactionary unionism isn't exactly known for its pragmatism or foresight.
Perhaps its that they know longer term its all over and they have decided to keep as much as they have for as long as they can and and hope for a miracle .
 

theloner

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Agreed, they are also a bunch of stubborn f*ckwits. Hold on to the Theme Park for Tea Party extras for as long as possible. What a nonsense, suppose it's like making a quick buck, literally.
 

CastleRay

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Except they're not. Political disagreements aside, that's factually wrong - nationalists have a solution to the problems posed by the border between the UK and the Republic, ie get rid of it and have a united Ireland. Whatever flaws that solution may have, it is at least a response.

Where's the response from those who want to keep the border? What's your solution?
That's a clueless solution and nationalists know it. It's the equivalent of a Unionist suggesting build a wall.
 

GDPR

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Agreed, they are also a bunch of stubborn f*ckwits. Hold on to the Theme Park for Tea Party extras for as long as possible. What a nonsense, suppose it's like making a quick buck, literally.
The Unionist parties (the Alliance aside) are all reactionaries. They dont exist for any other reason than to resist constitutional change in NI, so they are running true to type. The problem with this sort of thinking is you will find yourself continually wrong-footed by people who do have plans and are getting on with them. Whatever happens in life or politics, you are going to get change, and doing nothing but saying "no" means other folk will get to shape the nature of that change - not you.
 

CastleRay

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This is why it's puzzling, especially from the DUP point of view. Why not create a strategy of making NI more attractive to nationalists, especially with the demographics trend that is heading in only one direction. There are plenty of spineless weasel nationalists out there that would gladly wrap themselves in the Butcher's Apron with a little coaxing and encouragement. But then again, reactionary unionism isn't exactly known for its pragmatism or foresight.

Sectarianism and bigotry seems to be a Tourette's type syndrome for many within DUP circles. And when the UUP feel left-outsies, they also join the race to the bottom which ends up awfully cringeworthy and quite pathetic. Leaving TUV as my fave unionist party after Alliance.
Whereas unpuzzling nationalist woo unionists with language like "Butchers apron" :roll:
 

Glaucon

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This is why it's puzzling, especially from the DUP point of view. Why not create a strategy of making NI more attractive to nationalists, especially with the demographics trend that is heading in only one direction. There are plenty of spineless weasel nationalists out there that would gladly wrap themselves in the Butcher's Apron with a little coaxing and encouragement. But then again, reactionary unionism isn't exactly known for its pragmatism or foresight.

Sectarianism and bigotry seems to be a Tourette's type syndrome for many within DUP circles. And when the UUP feel left-outsies, they also join the race to the bottom which ends up awfully cringeworthy and quite pathetic. Leaving TUV as my fave unionist party after Alliance.
This.
 

theloner

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Whereas unpuzzling nationalist woo unionists with language like "Butchers apron" :roll:
I am not a spineless weasel nationalist. I have no interest in wooing reactionary unionists. I prefer to expose them and go right through them. However, in the part of the sentence you didn't quote, well, there are plenty of those.
 

GDPR

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But why do you need to be told this? Loner is saying no more than what Terence O'Neill said back in the 60s. "What sort of Ulster do you want?" And the answer was one where Fenians know their place.
 


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