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The Chilcot Report: July 6th 2016

saab900

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May 22, 2014
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Some posters on p.ie may not remember the Iraq War. I do.

I remember marching with 100k people in Dublin city centre. I remember similar marches in other cities throughout the world, like the 1m people (yes, 1,000,000 people) who marched in London. I remember not being able to comprehend how something like this could go ahead in the teeth of such universal opposition. I remember the American and British gutter press poking fun at French and German representatives on the UN Security Council. I remember watching rockets streaking across the sky in Baghdad, as journalists poked their cameras out the windows of luxury hotels. I remember the pictures of a Ali Abbas, a 10 year old boy who lost both his arms and his entire army in a cruise missile attack. I remember US soldiers humiliating Iraqi soldiers and taking selfies while they did so. I remember the concrete evidence about weapons of mass destruction, that were never found.

It is now almost universally accepted that the Iraqi invasion of 2003 by the US and the British was a catastrophic and unnecessary failure, that destroyed Iraq and undermined the fragile geo-political balance in the region in way that may never be healed, and which has given rise to a level of terrorism that we have no idea how to deal with.

On July 6th next week, we will finally get to see the final report of the The Iraqi Inquiry, otherwise known as the Chilcot Report. The inquiry began in 2009, and the final report has been ready since 2014. Since then, both the British and US establishment have done everything in their power to suppress it.

Will Chilcot be sufficient catharsis for what were undoubtedly the the most serious war crimes of our generation?

Let me finish with this.

Reg Keys son was a British soldier killed in Iraq. In 2005, he put himself forward as a candidate in Sedgefield, Tony Blair's constituency. He didn't win, but he did get to make a speech.


[video=youtube;jPj5IhATZ7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPj5IhATZ7k[/video]
 
Last edited:


SayItAintSo

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Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
11,349
Some posters on p.ie may not remember the Iraq War. I do.

I remember marching with 100k people in Dublin city centre. I remember similar marches in other cities throughout the world, like the 1m people (yes, 1,000,000 people) who marched in London. I remember not being able to comprehend how something like this could go ahead in the teeth of such universal opposition. I remember the American and British gutter press poking fun at French and German representatives on the UN Security Council. I remember watching rockets streaking across the sky in Baghdad, as journalists poked their cameras out the windows of luxury hotels. I remember the pictures of a Ali Abbas, a 10 year old boy who lost both his arms and his entire army in a cruise missile attack. I remember US soldiers humiliating Iraqi soldiers and taking selfies while they did so. I remember the concrete evidence about weapons of mass destruction, that were never found.

It is now almost universally accepted that the Iraqi invasion of 2003 by the US and the British was a catastrophic and unnecessary failure, that destroyed Iraq and undermined the fragile geo-political balance in the region in way that may never be healed, and which has given rise to a level of terrorism that we have no idea how to deal with.

On July 6th next week, we will finally get to see the final report of the The Iraqi Inquiry, otherwise known as the Chilcot Report. The inquiry began in 2009, and the final report has been ready since 2014. Since then, both the British and US establishment have done everything in their power to suppress it.

Will Chilcot be sufficient catharsis for what were undoubtedly the the most serious war crimes of our generation?

Let me finish with this.

Reg Keys son was a British soldier killed in Iraq. In 2005, he put himself forward as a candidate in Sedgefield, Tony Blair's constituency. He didn't win, but he did get to make a speech. How he kept his cool and dignified his son's memory is in stark contract to the man who won the seat, Tony Blair, a war criminal.

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPj5IhATZ7k
There was an excellent programme on bbc2 tonight called Iraq The Final Judgement. I'd recommend it if anyone can watch the bbc player.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Some posters on p.ie may not remember the Iraq War.
I remember that war, saab, but only as an ordinary civilian in London.

But back in 1958, as a young soldier I was in the Gulf during the period just after the army-coup in Iraq. Our battalion was on high-alert since the Iraqis seemed likely to invade Kuwait.

I spent many long hours in our little Battalion HQ as wireless operator/duty signaller and I started to thumb-through an army- manual that was there: "The Laws of War on Land" - it's now called The Law of Armed Conflict, here's a link to the 2004 edition.

There might be legal arguments as to whether or not the invasion of Iraq was de facto a war-crime but the manner in which the invasion and occupation seems likely to have been criminal.

The invaders had a duty under International Law to do the best they could to protect the civilian population; to maintain Law and Order, and also the country's civil administration and economy, and to minimise 'collateral damage'.

The invaders of Iraq totally ignored that responsibility, and huge numbers of Iraqis, men women and children died as a result.

I can't find a link to it but, after World War II, a number of German generals were hanged for their failure to maintain Law and Order in the Baltic States.


 
Last edited:

storybud1

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Oct 25, 2011
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The weird thing is Trump was very vocal about Iraq / Afghanistan at the time, how stupid it was, Blair is worth, what, 40 ? 50 mill ? a fooking warlord turned fixer, and just as weird a lefty liberal Labour guy ?

Far left and Far Right are in the Gutter as Eisnehower said, the road is in the middle,
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Here's a simple short, 21-minute long, USAF training film, The Law of Armed Conflict, that sets out the underlying ideas -


[video=youtube;F-wXHGbISzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wXHGbISzg[/video]
 

eoghanacht

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Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366
The way the Blairites, the BBC and Murdoch's media have gone after Corbyn tells us they are very fearful of what is contained within chilcott.


Don't hold your breath for Blair to be appearing at a war crime trial in The Hague though, that's only for war criminals the Anglo-American axis don't like, war criminals they do like get appointed middle east peace envoys.

But that and 200k appearance/speaking fees are a way of depositing the blood money in to a banking account without all those pesky questions.
 

saab900

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May 22, 2014
Messages
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The way the Blairites, the BBC and Murdoch's media have gone after Corbyn tells us they are very fearful of what is contained within chilcott.
Logic would dictate that on the date of the publication of the report, Labour would want to have a leader in place who is on the record as having opposed the invasion.

But then again, maybe UK voters have forgotten about Iraq and are now more worried about how they're going to pay for a 4D TV. The referendum result doesn't indicate much in the way of discerning analysis.
 

Clanrickard

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Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,277
Some posters on p.ie may not remember the Iraq War. I do.

I remember marching with 100k people in Dublin city centre. I remember similar marches in other cities throughout the world, like the 1m people (yes, 1,000,000 people) who marched in London. I remember not being able to comprehend how something like this could go ahead in the teeth of such universal opposition. I remember the American and British gutter press poking fun at French and German representatives on the UN Security Council. I remember watching rockets streaking across the sky in Baghdad, as journalists poked their cameras out the windows of luxury hotels. I remember the pictures of a Ali Abbas, a 10 year old boy who lost both his arms and his entire army in a cruise missile attack. I remember US soldiers humiliating Iraqi soldiers and taking selfies while they did so. I remember the concrete evidence about weapons of mass destruction, that were never found.

It is now almost universally accepted that the Iraqi invasion of 2003 by the US and the British was a catastrophic and unnecessary failure, that destroyed Iraq and undermined the fragile geo-political balance in the region in way that may never be healed, and which has given rise to a level of terrorism that we have no idea how to deal with.

On July 6th next week, we will finally get to see the final report of the The Iraqi Inquiry, otherwise known as the Chilcot Report. The inquiry began in 2009, and the final report has been ready since 2014. Since then, both the British and US establishment have done everything in their power to suppress it.

Will Chilcot be sufficient catharsis for what were undoubtedly the the most serious war crimes of our generation?

Let me finish with this.

Reg Keys son was a British soldier killed in Iraq. In 2005, he put himself forward as a candidate in Sedgefield, Tony Blair's constituency. He didn't win, but he did get to make a speech.


[video=youtube;jPj5IhATZ7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPj5IhATZ7k[/video]
Did you ever march against Saddam?
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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The way the Blairites, the BBC and Murdoch's media have gone after Corbyn tells us they are very fearful of what is contained within chilcott.


Don't hold your breath for Blair to be appearing at a war crime trial in The Hague though, that's only for war criminals the Anglo-American axis don't like, war criminals they do like get appointed middle east peace envoys.

But that and 200k appearance/speaking fees are a way of depositing the blood money in to a banking account without all those pesky questions.
You mean the way the majority of the Labour MPs have gone after Corbyn. Because he is useless and with him at the helm they have zero chance of winning an election.
 

former wesleyan

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All this is an indication of the return of Pontius Pilate as a role model for international relations. Saddam Hussein was a butcher. His butchery was carefully documented, to the point where a British judge in a letter to the Times noted that his crimes were videotaped. Sexed-up dossiers and so forth are proof positive that governments are unable to go to their electorates with a simple appeal on humanitarian grounds to remove butchers like Hussein. This piece in the Irish Times of 1998 shows that people tried the legal route, only to fail.

Pressure group campaigns to indict Saddam for war crimes

The International Campaign to Indict Iraqi War Criminals (Indict) says its mission is to have Mr Saddam and 11 others - including his half-brother, Mr Barzan Al-Tikriti - tried for crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide. The campaign follows unsuccessful proceedings initiated by Indict a few days ago against Mr Tikriti, who, until recently, served as the Iraqi ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva.
Mr Tikriti, former head of Iraqi intelligence between 1979 and 1983, has returned to Iraq in the past few days for the first time in almost nine years. He is believed to be responsible for widespread acts of murder, torture, enforced disappearances, extra-judicial executions, arbitrary detention and rape.
The Indict chairwoman, Ms Ann Clwyd, a British Labour MP, said the group planned to push for the establishment of an ad hoc tribunal, similar to those in operation for Bosnia and Rwanda, a move backed by the UN Secretary General, Mr Kofi Annan. The British Prime Minister, Mr Tony Blair, has also pledged his support.
And if the population of Iraq bore the brunt of interventionism, it can also be said that the population of Syria has borne the brunt of non-interventionism. Pictures of Syrian children maimed and killed by Assads barrel bombs are widely available.
 

saab900

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May 22, 2014
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Did you ever march against Saddam?
No, nor Gaddafi, nor Mubarak, nor Baby Doc Duvalier, nor any other venal dictator.

I subscribe to the view that the the affairs of other nations are there own, and that we should limit ourselves to isolating these people and making their domestic situation as difficult as possible. That only changes when they seek to impose their dictatorship on other nations.

The British/US adventure in Iraq establishes beyond doubt that notions like "regime change" and "nation building" are flawed concepts and result in far greater suffering for the people involved than the accepted wisdom of containment.
 

saab900

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You mean the way the majority of the Labour MPs have gone after Corbyn. Because he is useless and with him at the helm they have zero chance of winning an election.
Corbyn hasn't contested an election.

The Blair rump has, and lost.
 

eoghanacht

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Logic would dictate that on the date of the publication of the report, Labour would want to have a leader in place who is on the record as having opposed the invasion.

But then again, maybe UK voters have forgotten about Iraq and are now more worried about how they're going to pay for a 4D TV. The referendum result doesn't indicate much in the way of discerning analysis.
The Blairites have blood on their hands they want another Blue Labour leader that'll help with the cover up.
 

eoghanacht

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You mean the way the majority of the Labour MPs have gone after Corbyn. Because he is useless and with him at the helm they have zero chance of winning an election.
Clan the right winger is worried about the electoral chances of Labour.

We can see right through you.
 

former wesleyan

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No, nor Gaddafi, nor Mubarak, nor Baby Doc Duvalier, nor any other venal dictator.

I subscribe to the view that the the affairs of other nations are there own, and that we should limit ourselves to isolating these people and making their domestic situation as difficult as possible. That only changes when they seek to impose their dictatorship on other nations.

The British/US adventure in Iraq establishes beyond doubt that notions like "regime change" and "nation building" are flawed concepts and result in far greater suffering for the people involved than the accepted wisdom of containment.
So you're happy with Syria then ?
 

eoghanacht

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Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
33,366
All this is an indication of the return of Pontius Pilate as a role model for international relations. Saddam Hussein was a butcher. His butchery was carefully documented, to the point where a British judge in a letter to the Times noted that his crimes were videotaped. Sexed-up dossiers and so forth are proof positive that governments are unable to go to their electorates with a simple appeal on humanitarian grounds to remove butchers like Hussein. This piece in the Irish Times of 1998 shows that people tried the legal route, only to fail.

Pressure group campaigns to indict Saddam for war crimes



And if the population of Iraq bore the brunt of interventionism, it can also be said that the population of Syria has borne the brunt of non-interventionism. Pictures of Syrian children maimed and killed by Assads barrel bombs are widely available.


So the blatant lies, sexed up dossiers are a necessity because the stupid British public won't back wars otherwise and the proof the Iraq wWar was justified is because Assad is also bad.

That's some "logic" their Wes.


The concern of the Irish right for Labours chances in the next elections are heartwarming.

:loo:
 

saab900

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So you're happy with Syria then ?
I'm not sure what you are asking, but I don't believe that western nations should involve themselves in the internal affairs of any Arab state.

Bear in mind in your defence of the invasion of Iraq that the perpetrators justified the action on the basis of Saddam having weapons of mass destruction that he was about to launch against the west, not any concern for the Iraqi population, who had been living under Saddam's rule for decades.
 

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