The Claire Byrne Live Leader's debate.



LISTOWEL MAN

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S.F at 20%+ in the polls! Most S.F supporters expect a media barrage about everything
Most S.F. supporters resort to bullying because they can't argue what the IRA did to women and children

pedo enabler Gerry Adams little lapdog Mary Lou will step down before she admits what he is
 

Baron von Biffo

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Here's Leos speech writer ..curiously , he's not a TD .....as anyone with even a passing factual acquaintance with politics , not you obviously , knows ...speechwriters arent TDs
If you shine your full 40 watts on it maybe you'll see that there's a difference between a politician having a speech-writer working for them and a politician working for the speech-writer.

Varadkar has someone whom he charges with writing the speeches he wants to deliver. He has control over the content and may amend it as he chooses.

Peadar Tobin has revealed that SF TDs are given speeches and forced to read them into the Dail record even if they disagree with them. One TD even read a speech in Irish to disassociate herself from it.

And as anyone with even a passing factual acquaintance with politics , not you obviously , knows , every is told to vote by the positions democratically arrived at, at an Ard Fheis.
Anyone with a nodding acquaintance with politics knows that broad policy is set out at the party Ard Fheis but that TDs and senators decide how to implement it.

The Ard Fheis doesn't deal with minutiae nor does it instruct TDs how to vote.

That you,ve been told this by numerous posters, with links and evidence , posters from across the political spectrum on here , and been told (in fact you should know) that this the template , found not just in Ireland but across the democratic western world with a party system,

and yet you choose to continue to peddle your mendacious dishonest lies, well it speaks volumes about you and explains why you seem to be held in utter contempt by so many posters
Repeated error is still error.

No supporter of another Irish party has said that their system is the same as SF for the very obvious reason that SF is unique in having this scandalous policy.
 

Baron von Biffo

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of course i'd support that sort of measure and im on record here, many years ago advocating for such a measure, i think it was around the time of the promissory notes IIRC, together with a measure that politicians are obliged to vote to their conscience.
Fair enough, if you say you support it I'll accept that.

It does make your support for SF on this issue quite inexplicable though.

i still cant believe that you cant see the litany of problems that have already happened in ireland due to undue influence being placed in govt, a position the shinners have never been in.

again his boils down to actual harm done by FFGLAB vs project fear about what the shinners could possibly do, if they ever got in
Well no. What it boils down to is learning from the mistakes of the past.

For example, we suspect that political decisions in the past may have been influenced by the commercial interests of TDs so we put in place a register of members interests so that any potential conflict will be apparent.

What we don't have is a register of interests for those who tell SF TDs how to vote.

If we see that harm was caused in the past by TDs being answerable to outsiders, how can we possibly condone a party policy that expressly puts TDs under the direction of outsiders?

Every citizen should be concerned when our public representatives are pledged, not to do our business, but instead to act as the agents of people who aren't accountable to us and whom we didn't elect.
 

artfoley56

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Well no. What it boils down to is learning from the mistakes of the past.

For example, we suspect that political decisions in the past may have been influenced by the commercial interests of TDs so we put in place a register of members interests so that any potential conflict will be apparent.

What we don't have is a register of interests for those who tell SF TDs how to vote.

If we see that harm was caused in the past by TDs being answerable to outsiders, how can we possibly condone a party policy that expressly puts TDs under the direction of outsiders?

Every citizen should be concerned when our public representatives are pledged, not to do our business, but instead to act as the agents of people who aren't accountable to us and whom we didn't elect
the sentient point in all of this, is that FFGLAB are in no position at all to attack the shinners on this point. if we had any sort of media at work here theyd be well able to point out the hypocrisy of FFGLAB
 

BACKTOBASICS

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disagree with them?

murder, sex abuse, intimidation

what's not to like?
I see Peadar Tobin's party Aontú have tabled a motion to return to having anchor babies (migrants flying in 8 months pregnant to have their babies in Ireland, particularly Nigerians) accepted for Irish citizenship. They are also open border advocates. Is this true?
 

artfoley56

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Advisers advise. Ministers don't sign a pledge to follow the orders of their advisers.

At least they haven't up to now. That may no longer be the case when eventually we have a SF minister.
a singed pledge isnt necessary as well you know. cant leave any documents for the audit trail as weve seen in all the tribunals
 

Baron von Biffo

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the sentient point in all of this, is that FFGLAB are in no position at all to attack the shinners on this point. if we had any sort of media at work here theyd be well able to point out the hypocrisy of FFGLAB
One of the good things about democracy is that rival parties may criticise each other.

A wrong doesn't become right just because someone who criticises it has himself done wrong.
 

brughahaha

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Fair enough, if you say you support it I'll accept that.

It does make your support for SF on this issue quite inexplicable though.



Well no. What it boils down to is learning from the mistakes of the past.

For example, we suspect that political decisions in the past may have been influenced by the commercial interests of TDs so we put in place a register of members interests so that any potential conflict will be apparent.

What we don't have is a register of interests for those who tell SF TDs how to vote.

If we see that harm was caused in the past by TDs being answerable to outsiders, how can we possibly condone a party policy that expressly puts TDs under the direction of outsiders?

Every citizen should be concerned when our public representatives are pledged, not to do our business, but instead to act as the agents of people who aren't accountable to us and whom we didn't elect.

As dishonest as ever ..read the Tobin article , dont draw conclusions from the headlines

There is NOTHING in there that doesnt happen in every other party
As you've been told by numerous posters from different political backgrounds

Toibin is a man heading into the political wilderness and bitter about it ...feasted on by those with a pathological antipathy to Sf ....like you!



I'll repeat

that you,ve been told you are wrong numerous posters, with links and evidence , posters from across the political spectrum on here , and been told (in fact you should know) that this the template , found not just in Ireland but across the democratic western world with a party system,

and yet you choose to continue to peddle your mendacious dishonest lies, well it speaks volumes about you and explains why you seem to be held in utter contempt by so many posters
 

artfoley56

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One of the good things about democracy is that rival parties may criticise each other.

A wrong doesn't become right just because someone who criticises it has himself done wrong.
never said it did. please try to reply to the points im making rather than going off on tangents
 

Baron von Biffo

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As dishonest as ever ..read the Tobin article , dont draw conclusions from the headlines

"Mr Tóibín said he knew of one TD who was effectively directed to make Dáil speeches by their assistant as she did not agree with the policy. "That TD actually decided to give a speech in Irish so that the policy wouldn't be associated with her," he said. "

Not that there's any chance you'll apologise but at least people can see which of us is lying.

There is NOTHING in there that doesnt happen in every other party
As you've been told by numerous posters from different political backgrounds
Just because SF supporters keep saying that it doesn't make it true.

Toibin is a man heading into the political wilderness and bitter about it ...feasted on by those with a pathological antipathy to Sf ....like you!
His motive's are irrelevant to the substance of his revelations.

I'll repeat

that you,ve been told you are wrong numerous posters, with links and evidence , posters from across the political spectrum on here , and been told (in fact you should know) that this the template , found not just in Ireland but across the democratic western world with a party system,

and yet you choose to continue to peddle your mendacious dishonest lies, well it speaks volumes about you and explains why you seem to be held in utter contempt by so many posters
You can repeat it till the cows come home and it still won't make it true.
 

LISTOWEL MAN

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I see Peadar Tobin's party Aontú have tabled a motion to return to having anchor babies (migrants flying in 8 months pregnant to have their babies in Ireland, particularly Nigerians) accepted for Irish citizenship. They are also open border advocates. Is this true?
i can't tell you anything about the anchor babies but i know this .. the irish health service was planned for / made for X amount of people (same as the housing)

Now they'd have you believe there's not enough beds etc There are plenty of beds for (and only for) the planned amount of patients at the time the hospital was built .. the population at that time .

There are too many people in Ireland but our elected representatives can't say that for fear of being perceived in some way racist
 

Levellers

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"Mr Tóibín said he knew of one TD who was effectively directed to make Dáil speeches by their assistant as she did not agree with the policy. "That TD actually decided to give a speech in Irish so that the policy wouldn't be associated with her," he said. "

Not that there's any chance you'll apologise but at least people can see which of us is lying.



Just because SF supporters keep saying that it doesn't make it true.



His motive's are irrelevant to the substance of his revelations.



You can repeat it till the cows come home and it still won't make it true.
So why did he keep quite for 25 years in the party? Or why didn't he say that in his resignation statement?
 

Mickeymac

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So why did he keep quite for 25 years in the party? Or why didn't he say that in his resignation statement?

Obsessives have no wish sir to acknowledge truth...simple as.

All good of course for the electorate to see in print.
 


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