The Climate Change Debate Thread (Original Thread)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Eddiepops

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
106
Since there's so many threads started on this topic, making it nigh on impossible to follow them and leading to large amounts of repetition, I thought it would be best to start a stickied thread on the Climate Change/Global warming issue, for all those who would like to discuss whether it is true or not, the arguments in favour and against, etc. This can thus serve as the definitive thread on the issue and all relevant information, developments and views can be posted here. New threads on the issue will thus not be allowed. This is in line with the moderation policy of politics.ie that does not allow duplicate threads on the same topic.

Let the games begin :)
 


zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
Eddiepops said:
Since there's so many threads started on this topic, making it nigh on impossible to follow them and leading to large amounts of repetition, I thought it would be best to start a stickied thread on the Climate Change/Global warming issue, for all those who would like to discuss whether it is true or not, the arguments in favour and against, etc. This can thus serve as the definitive thread on the issue and all relevant information, developments and views can be posted here. New threads on the issue will thus not be allowed. This is in line with the moderation policy of politics.ie that does not allow duplicate threads on the same topic.

Let the games begin :)
climate change = weather.
its been happening longer than we've been burning fossil fuels.
 

lyingeyes98

New member
Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
2
When did we stop calling it Global Warming and start calling it Climate Change. anything Frank Luntz is associated with has got to be dodgy.
 

ballot stuffer

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
1,504
While acknowledging the climate may be changing I am highly sceptical of our level of involvement and the accuracy of climate models that predict the future.

I am also dismayed at some of the more extreme "Eco fascists" that are intentionally polarising the debate in order to promote their own extreme views.
 

blinding

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
17,400
I dont trust scientists, politicians,media so...........................
 

rockyracoon

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
181
The ideologoical (if you like) change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" seems to indicate that the agenda of the ecologocial-political groupings are trying to extend their orbit of influence while being unable to rely on their original premises. Are we not experiencing global warming now? Why the change in the name of the potential catastrophe we're facing?

The fact of the matter is that we are facing into strident competition for diminishing natural resources. The greatest diminishing natural resource that pops to mind is oil.

On the top of diminishing natural resources is the emergence of a new world order at the beginning of this century; namely the emergence of the BRIC nations who are demanding and obtaining use of the diminishing natural resources. The sheer population numbers of China and India alone, if they were to achieve our Western standard of living, can potentially alter the distribution of wealth and resources across the globe. How much of the eco-pol policies are really about curtailing BRIC nations demand on resources while scrambling for alternative fuel sources in order to prop up our Western standard of living?

[By the way, good idea for a one stop shop for the topic. Some of these broader topics can really take off.]
 

humperdink

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
23
I think it's great that we can individually contribute to making a difference and can recycle our household waste and have it picked up outside the door. But am I throwing that empty coffee jar into the brown bin becasue I want to save the planet, or because the glass is kindof heavy and is going cost me a few extra cents to throw it in the pay by weight rubbish bin?
 

Evestown

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
5
I know that I'm going to sound like my parents here but we're too well off. We're so insulated from the effects of climate change that we don't really care about it.

I know that the weather is terrible here at the moment so I'll go on a sun holiday. When it gets cold in the winter I'll turn up the heating. true, I'll gripe about the cost of gas or heating oil but I won't be in a situation where I have to decide on whether to eat this week or to heat the house. At worst I may have to cancel my gym membership or, god forbid, my Sky subscription.

The same goes for the cost of fuel. I'll moderate my driving a bit but I still think of replacing my car with a 4X4 or perhaps a Qashqai or something safe, like a volvo. but not a smaller more efficient model.

Fortunately, we're not subsistence farmers or something like that so the immediate effects of climate change go unnoticed. It will only be when our houses get flooded more than once (so we can't excuse it as a 100 year flood) and heating becomes a serious drain on our budgets that we might stop and think about the environment. But by then it will probably be too late.

BTW I realise that there are lots of people in the country where the cost of fuel, heating etc is prohibitive but most of us are middle class, comfortable and well off enough to bear a few price increases.
 

zakalwe

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
171
Evestown said:
I know that I'm going to sound like my parents here but we're too well off. We're so insulated from the effects of climate change that we don't really care about it.

I know that the weather is terrible here at the moment so I'll go on a sun holiday. When it gets cold in the winter I'll turn up the heating. true, I'll gripe about the cost of gas or heating oil but I won't be in a situation where I have to decide on whether to eat this week or to heat the house. At worst I may have to cancel my gym membership or, god forbid, my Sky subscription.

The same goes for the cost of fuel. I'll moderate my driving a bit but I still think of replacing my car with a 4X4 or perhaps a Qashqai or something safe, like a volvo. but not a smaller more efficient model.

Fortunately, we're not subsistence farmers or something like that so the immediate effects of climate change go unnoticed. It will only be when our houses get flooded more than once (so we can't excuse it as a 100 year flood) and heating becomes a serious drain on our budgets that we might stop and think about the environment. But by then it will probably be too late.

BTW I realise that there are lots of people in the country where the cost of fuel, heating etc is prohibitive but most of us are middle class, comfortable and well off enough to bear a few price increases.
none of the above has anything to do with climate change, just the scarsity of oil.

unless you're saying that without air travel, people will change their energy consumption habits in the hope of turning ireland into a sunnier/warmer island.
 

JCSkinner

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2005
Messages
1,247
Website
skinflicks.blogspot.com
Climate change is what eco-nuts call weather in order to use it as an excuse for increased taxation and the retarding of Third World developing economies.
The climate is changing all the time, and always has done, ever since the mega-monsoon climate of Pangaea ended with the splitting of the continents in the mid-Jurassic period.
But there is no debate permitted. It's a faith-based religion with true believers in the political classes who well see how to harness the Hobbiton dreams of delusionals to their aim of maintaining the gap of privelige in their own favour.
 

bryannavaro

Member
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
31
The climate is changing all the time, and always has done, ever since the mega-monsoon climate of Pangaea ended with the splitting of the continents in the mid-Jurassic period.
Well then, we have nothing to worry about.
 

bryannavaro

Member
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
31
The ideologoical (if you like) change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" seems to indicate that the agenda of the ecologocial-political groupings are trying to extend their orbit of influence while being unable to rely on their original premises. Are we not experiencing global warming now? Why the change in the name of the potential catastrophe we're facing?
Global warming implies only a temperature change, but changes to other aspects of the climate, including wind patterns and precipitation can be expected.

That's way...
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,674
lyingeyes98 said:
When did we stop calling it Global Warming and start calling it Climate Change.
North Americans tend to refer to climate change so that when people get snowed in they can blame that on CO2 in the atmosphere. There was a guy on RTE last year who said the Rideau canal in Ottawa hadn't frozen because of Global Warming. A few weeks later I asked a mate of mine in Toronto if he'd heard about it. It was frozen along with most of eastern Canada, winter had arrived 3 weeks later than expected.
 

SPN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
16,845
Climate Change Debate Thread?

What's to debate?

Just because the Wingers and Flat Earthers prefer to ignore the science doesn't mean we have to waste time "debating" with them.

How can you "debate" with people who make stuff up, tell barefaced lies, and refuse to be informed by science?

Just ignore them and hopefully they'll go away.
 

Pidge

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
427
lyingeyes98 said:
When did we stop calling it Global Warming and start calling it Climate Change. anything Frank Luntz is associated with has got to be dodgy.
It wasn't Frank Luntz who came up with the term, he just encouraged the White House to use it. We know that it at least goes back to 1988, when the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was set up.

JCSkinner said:
Climate change is what eco-nuts call weather in order to use it as an excuse for increased taxation and the retarding of Third World developing economies.
The climate is changing all the time, and always has done, ever since the mega-monsoon climate of Pangaea ended with the splitting of the continents in the mid-Jurassic period.
But there is no debate permitted. It's a faith-based religion with true believers in the political classes who well see how to harness the Hobbiton dreams of delusionals to their aim of maintaining the gap of privelige in their own favour.
I've a few questions JC, and in the interest of this thread being definitive, would you mind answering them?
1) Do you still claim that changes in the Sun's output are responsible for changes in our global climate?
2) If climate change is "an excuse" by the political classes for increased taxation, does that imply an explicit conspiracy? Who is in on this conspiracy?
3) If this is a conspiracy by the political classes, it would have to range back to the late 1970s. Don't you think that the politcal classes have changed since then, and why have so few countries instituted a carbon tax yet?
 

Pidge

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
427
rockyracoon said:
The ideologoical (if you like) change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" seems to indicate that the agenda of the ecologocial-political groupings are trying to extend their orbit of influence while being unable to rely on their original premises. Are we not experiencing global warming now? Why the change in the name of the potential catastrophe we're facing?
Not quite. The two terms always existed side by side. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was set up way back in 1988. Global warming was used alongside climate change, but it's less accurate, since the overall theory suggests a medium-term, overall warming trend. People simply took the name "global warming" and said "But it's bloody freezing in Meath" etc, so I tend to use the more accurate and less ambiguous term.
 

Electro

Member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
91
Not quite. The two terms always existed side by side. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was set up way back in 1988. Global warming was used alongside climate change, but it's less accurate, since the overall theory suggests a medium-term, overall warming trend. People simply took the name "global warming" and said "But it's bloody freezing in Meath" etc, so I tend to use the more accurate and less ambiguous term.
No. "People" didn't just adopt the term "global warming" out of nowhere; leftist naturists/environmentalists propagated the term into popular use. Exactly the same way with the latest buzzterm, "climate change".
 

moghroth

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
15
Website
www.moghroth.blogspot.com
Electro said:
Not quite. The two terms always existed side by side. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was set up way back in 1988. Global warming was used alongside climate change, but it's less accurate, since the overall theory suggests a medium-term, overall warming trend. People simply took the name "global warming" and said "But it's bloody freezing in Meath" etc, so I tend to use the more accurate and less ambiguous term.
No. "People" didn't just adopt the term "global warming" out of nowhere; leftist naturists/environmentalists propagated the term into popular use. Exactly the same way with the latest buzzterm, "climate change".
We could always use The Nonlinear Deterministic Transition State Dynamics as Applied to Oceanographic and Atmospheric Systems with Impacts on Biodynamic Feedback Loops Thread
 

Bobert

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,071
Anybody remember the last ice age? The one before that? The one before that?
 

factual

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
8,723
I believe that there is a real problem with environmental tax: it disproportinately hits the poor.

Rich folks should pay a higher rate of environmental tax than poor. There are ways to do this.

Also you could give everyone a quota of three flights per year and allow people to trade.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top