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The complete capitulation of the teachers unions. Powerful PS unions? Not in teaching.


RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
Perhaps one of the major myths since the crash of the economy (2008 onwards) has been the myth of the "powerful" public sector unions usually with Croke Park thrown in for good measure by journalists, commentators and posters who haven't a clue what they're talking about.

This thread has been setup to discuss one particular public profession (teaching) and to examine the role played by their main unions - the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO), the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland (ASTI) and the Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) - in doing what they're paid to do and that is to protect the pay, employment and working conditions of their members.

Since 2008-09 some of the issues affecting teaching include the following:

1 - April 2009 - The public sector pension levy: Brian Lenihan introduces the public sector pension levy which cuts the net pay of all public sector workers by an average of 7.5%. Initially this levy and idea was proposed by the unions themselves. This levy is likely to remain a permanent fixture in the future unlike the recent 0.6% levy on those with private pensions which is to be scrapped after only a year in existence. The government then raided the pension fund to ail out the banks meaning that money paid by public servants into their pensions is not being setup into a separate fund.

2 - December 2009 - FF and Brian Lenihan impose further separate pay cuts of between 5 and 10% on all public sector workers. Little opposition comes from the unions.

3 - The Public Service Agreement 2010-2014 - Otherwise known as "the Croke Park Agreement" this agreement has significantly worsened the conditions of employment of all public sector workers in exchange for a guarantee that public sector workers would not be targeted separately from the workforce for further cuts again. In teaching, at second level, this had led to over one million extra teaching hours across the country (750 schools) per year.

4 - Increases in the pupil-teacher ratio - Every budget since 2008 has seen various rises in the pupil teacher ratio at both primary and secondary level meaning job losses into the thousands for non permanent teachers. This continues to occur despite Croke Park. Union opposition has been next to nothing despite rising class sizes.

5 - Redeployments - Ongoing under Croke Park. When teachers are redeployed someone else loses their job. The unions, led by the elder permanent teachers, have offered no opposition.

6 - The public sector recruitment embargo - This embargo has effectively led to the scenario whereby public sector workers cannot be promoted except in exceptional circumstances (e.g. A principal appointed). This has led to teachers, mainly junior teachers, being put under considerable pressure to take on jobs in schools for free. The unions have done nothing.

7 - Allowances no longer paid to new teachers - Since February 2011 new teachers no longer are paid any allowances. Tis does to extend to principals appointed who have had their allowances protected. The unions did nothing except to issue statements. New teachers, if appointed, would now have a take home pay of around €20,000 if full time.

8 - Sick Leave Entitlements - Significantly reduced under the present LABOUR government to the point where teachers are allowed 7 sick days over a two year period. No opposition from the unions occurred.

9 - Maternity Leave Entitlements reduced - recently announced in the 2013 budget with no opposition from the unions.

10 - The abolition of the Junior Cert - Announced as some sort of far reaching reform of the education system . . It is nothing of the sort. The Junior Cert is to be abolished over the years 2014-20 with teachers required to do the work the State Examinations Commission once did. A cost saving measure designed to get teachers to do more for less. The teaching unions (or parents representatives) were not consulted. The response of the ASTI was to issue a survey.

11 - The Teaching Council - A scam of a QUANGO where lunacy extends to denying citizens with Engineering degrees the right to be recognised as a Mathematics teacher. Set up by a Bertie government for the union leaderships it is entirely funded by teachers to the amount of €90 per year. Populated by the union leaders the expenses, free dinners and lunches have flowed ever since.


These are just some of the measures which have been introduced with virtually no opposition from, in this case, the teaching unions and may shed some light on the complete in effectiveness and uselessness of public sector unions whose leadership have sold their members down the Swanee whilst they themselves, as private sector workers, retain the same pay and perks since 2008.
 


Cooperate for freedom

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
3,701
Perhaps one of the major myths since the crash of the economy (2008 onwards) has been the myth of the "powerful" public sector unions usually with Croke Park thrown in for good measure by journalists, commentators and posters who haven't a clue what they're talking about.

This thread has been setup to discuss one particular public profession (teaching) and to examine the role played by their main unions - the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO), the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland (ASTI) and the Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) - in doing what they're paid to do and that is to protect the pay, employment and working conditions of their members.

Since 2008-09 some of the issues affecting teaching include the following:

1 - April 2009 - The public sector pension levy: Brian Lenihan introduces the public sector pension levy which cuts the net pay of all public sector workers by an average of 7.5%. Initially this levy and idea was proposed by the unions themselves. This levy is likely to remain a permanent fixture in the future unlike the recent 0.6% levy on those with private pensions which is to be scrapped after only a year in existence. The government then raided the pension fund to ail out the banks meaning that money paid by public servants into their pensions is not being setup into a separate fund.

2 - December 2009 - FF and Brian Lenihan impose further separate pay cuts of between 5 and 10% on all public sector workers. Little opposition comes from the unions.

3 - The Public Service Agreement 2010-2014 - Otherwise known as "the Croke Park Agreement" this agreement has significantly worsened the conditions of employment of all public sector workers in exchange for a guarantee that public sector workers would not be targeted separately from the workforce for further cuts again. In teaching, at second level, this had led to over one million extra teaching hours across the country (750 schools) per year.

4 - Increases in the pupil-teacher ratio - Every budget since 2008 has seen various rises in the pupil teacher ratio at both primary and secondary level meaning job losses into the thousands for non permanent teachers. This continues to occur despite Croke Park. Union opposition has been next to nothing despite rising class sizes.

5 - Redeployments - Ongoing under Croke Park. When teachers are redeployed someone else loses their job. The unions, led by the elder permanent teachers, have offered no opposition.

6 - The public sector recruitment embargo - This embargo has effectively led to the scenario whereby public sector workers cannot be promoted except in exceptional circumstances (e.g. A principal appointed). This has led to teachers, mainly junior teachers, being put under considerable pressure to take on jobs in schools for free. The unions have done nothing.

7 - Allowances no longer paid to new teachers - Since February 2011 new teachers no longer are paid any allowances. Tis does to extend to principals appointed who have had their allowances protected. The unions did nothing except to issue statements. New teachers, if appointed, would now have a take home pay of around €20,000 if full time.

8 - Sick Leave Entitlements - Significantly reduced under the present LABOUR government to the point where teachers are allowed 7 sick days over a two year period. No opposition from the unions occurred.

9 - Maternity Leave Entitlements reduced - recently announced in the 2013 budget with no opposition from the unions.

10 - The abolition of the Junior Cert - Announced as some sort of far reaching reform of the education system . . It is nothing of the sort. The Junior Cert is to be abolished over the years 2014-20 with teachers required to do the work the State Examinations Commission once did. A cost saving measure designed to get teachers to do more for less. The teaching unions (or parents representatives) were not consulted. The response of the ASTI was to issue a survey.

11 - The Teaching Council - A scam of a QUANGO where lunacy extends to denying citizens with Engineering degrees the right to be recognised as a Mathematics teacher. Set up by a Bertie government for the union leaderships it is entirely funded by teachers to the amount of €90 per year. Populated by the union leaders the expenses, free dinners and lunches have flowed ever since.


These are just some of the measures which have been introduced with virtually no opposition from, in this case, the teaching unions and may shed some light on the complete in effectiveness and uselessness of public sector unions whose leadership have sold their members down the Swanee whilst they themselves, as private sector workers, retain the same pay and perks since 2008.
Someone with a degree in engineering may not be suitable for teaching. Knowing the subject and teaching it are two very different things.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
18,252
Put in your gum shield, Robert.
 

lying eyes

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Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
4,417
Salaries coming in line with what the Country can AFFORD. A lot morre of this type of action is needed across the PS. A small population can only afford so much. Remember there is no sky fairy to produce the money.
 

libertarian-right

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,492
I know an entry level teacher extremely unhappy to find out she had to fork up money to the teaching council. From what I hear from 2 seasoned teachers, it's a complete waste of money. Time to abolish that useless quango.
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
Salaries coming in line with what the Country can AFFORD. A lot morre of this type of action is needed across the PS. A small population can only afford so much. Remember there is no sky fairy to produce the money.
It's not about what the country can afford.

It's about various governments using this crisis to squeeze the public sector with their unions doing nothing.
 

stakerwallace

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Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,422
Increments next on the list.
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
Increments next on the list.
For the moment I cannot see that occurring. Ironically forgoing increments would have no effect on elder highly paid public servants.

The younger poorly paid will be affected the most.
 

sauntersplash

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
3,464
If the last five years have taught us anything, it's that "the unions" have no bloody power whatsoever. If only someone'd sit down and actually read the Croke Park Agreement they'd catch a cold from the amount of air flowing through it.
 

davoid

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
9,711
Perhaps one of the major myths since the crash of the economy (2008 onwards) has been the myth of the "powerful" public sector unions usually with Croke Park thrown in for good measure by journalists, commentators and posters who haven't a clue what they're talking about.

This thread has been setup to discuss one particular public profession (teaching) and to examine the role played by their main unions - the Irish National Teachers Organisation (INTO), the Association of Secondary Teachers Ireland (ASTI) and the Teachers Union of Ireland (TUI) - in doing what they're paid to do and that is to protect the pay, employment and working conditions of their members.

Since 2008-09 some of the issues affecting teaching include the following:

1 - April 2009 - The public sector pension levy: Brian Lenihan introduces the public sector pension levy which cuts the net pay of all public sector workers by an average of 7.5%. Initially this levy and idea was proposed by the unions themselves. This levy is likely to remain a permanent fixture in the future unlike the recent 0.6% levy on those with private pensions which is to be scrapped after only a year in existence. The government then raided the pension fund to ail out the banks meaning that money paid by public servants into their pensions is not being setup into a separate fund.

2 - December 2009 - FF and Brian Lenihan impose further separate pay cuts of between 5 and 10% on all public sector workers. Little opposition comes from the unions.

3 - The Public Service Agreement 2010-2014 - Otherwise known as "the Croke Park Agreement" this agreement has significantly worsened the conditions of employment of all public sector workers in exchange for a guarantee that public sector workers would not be targeted separately from the workforce for further cuts again. In teaching, at second level, this had led to over one million extra teaching hours across the country (750 schools) per year.

4 - Increases in the pupil-teacher ratio - Every budget since 2008 has seen various rises in the pupil teacher ratio at both primary and secondary level meaning job losses into the thousands for non permanent teachers. This continues to occur despite Croke Park. Union opposition has been next to nothing despite rising class sizes.

5 - Redeployments - Ongoing under Croke Park. When teachers are redeployed someone else loses their job. The unions, led by the elder permanent teachers, have offered no opposition.

6 - The public sector recruitment embargo - This embargo has effectively led to the scenario whereby public sector workers cannot be promoted except in exceptional circumstances (e.g. A principal appointed). This has led to teachers, mainly junior teachers, being put under considerable pressure to take on jobs in schools for free. The unions have done nothing.

7 - Allowances no longer paid to new teachers - Since February 2011 new teachers no longer are paid any allowances. Tis does to extend to principals appointed who have had their allowances protected. The unions did nothing except to issue statements. New teachers, if appointed, would now have a take home pay of around €20,000 if full time.

8 - Sick Leave Entitlements - Significantly reduced under the present LABOUR government to the point where teachers are allowed 7 sick days over a two year period. No opposition from the unions occurred.

9 - Maternity Leave Entitlements reduced - recently announced in the 2013 budget with no opposition from the unions.

10 - The abolition of the Junior Cert - Announced as some sort of far reaching reform of the education system . . It is nothing of the sort. The Junior Cert is to be abolished over the years 2014-20 with teachers required to do the work the State Examinations Commission once did. A cost saving measure designed to get teachers to do more for less. The teaching unions (or parents representatives) were not consulted. The response of the ASTI was to issue a survey.

11 - The Teaching Council - A scam of a QUANGO where lunacy extends to denying citizens with Engineering degrees the right to be recognised as a Mathematics teacher. Set up by a Bertie government for the union leaderships it is entirely funded by teachers to the amount of €90 per year. Populated by the union leaders the expenses, free dinners and lunches have flowed ever since.


These are just some of the measures which have been introduced with virtually no opposition from, in this case, the teaching unions and may shed some light on the complete in effectiveness and uselessness of public sector unions whose leadership have sold their members down the Swanee whilst they themselves, as private sector workers, retain the same pay and perks since 2008.
Your lucky your not in the real world.
 

Rocky

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Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
8,550
How many teachers have been made redundant? How many teachers have been put on three days weeks, with the pay reduced accordingly? How many teachers have simply had their pay slashed?

Because that's what happened to private sector employees whose employers are making massive losses every year.
 

stakerwallace

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Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,422
For the moment I cannot see that occurring. Ironically forgoing increments would have no effect on elder highly paid public servants.

The younger poorly paid will be affected the most.
Not too many teachers over 55 now left in the service.
 

Rural

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Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
27,906
I was a Public Servant back in the early 80s, I left because I was young and wanted to live and not die a horrible death of complete boredom.

Public Servants and Civil Servants are subtely different in the Civil Service, everything has to be accountable (except for some higher ups).

Quangos are a huge problem in this country, we have Fas, who (in this county) have the Wexford Local Development, who then hire venues to give a mickey mouse course for two hours every week for 10 weeks. It means nothing on paper for the participants or potential employers, the teachers are paid to for the couple of hours and treated like slurry.

Why can't Fas organise this, they have training officers etc. Why the QUANGO?
 

Spanner Island

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Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,199
And Happy Christmas to you too Robert :roll:

I hope you don't bang on to your family and friends like you do here... cos you'll ruin Christmas for them all if you do...
 

stakerwallace

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Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
13,422
I know an entry level teacher extremely unhappy to find out she had to fork up money to the teaching council. From what I hear from 2 seasoned teachers, it's a complete waste of money. Time to abolish that useless quango.
I remember the INTO seeking the establishment of a TEACHING Council in the 1980s.
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
How many teachers have been made redundant? How many teachers have been put on three days weeks, with the pay reduced accordingly? How many teachers have simply had their pay slashed?

Because that's what happened to private sector employees whose employers are making massive losses every year.
Non permanent teachers have lost their jobs. They don't get redundancy. They get told "don't come back in September".

Teachers have had hours reduced to facilitate the rises in the PTR. They must be present for five days as schools don't just open for three.

Every teacher in the country has had their pay slashed. . Have you even bothered to read the OP? :roll:
 

davoid

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Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
9,711
[.

[
[ just some of the measures which have been introduced with virtually no opposition from, in this case, the teaching unions and may shed some light on the complete in effectiveness and uselessness of public sector unions whose leadership have sold their members down the Swanee whilst they themselves, as private sector workers, retain the same pay and perks since 2008.
They retain their pay and perks, not because they are private sector, but because they are TU employees.
 

davoid

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
9,711
How many teachers have been made redundant? How many teachers have been put on three days weeks, with the pay reduced accordingly? How many teachers have simply had their pay slashed?

Because that's what happened to private sector employees whose employers are making massive losses every year.
A. Not a lot.
B. Not a lot.
C. Not a lot.
 

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