The Ctizen's Assembly as Seanad?

Deadlock

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I confess I'm big fan fan of the Citizens Assembly. As an exercise in democracy, it injects citizen viewpoints into the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues facing contemporary Ireland. Members deliberate impartial, expert, factual concerning these issues , and their conclusions inform the reports and recommendations to be submitted to Houses of the Oireachtas for further debate by our elected representatives.

But why stop there? Why not actually replace the Seanad as currently composed with spirit of the Citizens Assembly and rather than just inform reports and recommendations, the input instead forms the basis for reform of the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues in the real life - not just the narrow political life - of the nation.

Members to be empaneled on a the basis of National Sortition - along with alternates - for a single 4-5 year term, and current and previous members are automatically excluded from future selection.

What does P.ie think?

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/
 


ger12

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Elect members? (Democratic)

Or appoint them via a pollster? (Not democratic)
 

Angler

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I confess I'm big fan fan of the Citizens Assembly. As an exercise in democracy, it injects citizen viewpoints into the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues facing contemporary Ireland. Members deliberate impartial, expert, factual concerning these issues , and their conclusions inform the reports and recommendations to be submitted to Houses of the Oireachtas for further debate by our elected representatives.

But why stop there? Why not actually replace the Seanad as currently composed with spirit of the Citizens Assembly and rather than just inform reports and recommendations, the input instead forms the basis for reform of the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues in the real life - not just the narrow political life - of the nation.

Members to be empaneled on a the basis of National Sortition - along with alternates - for a single 4-5 year term, and current and previous members are automatically excluded from future selection.

What does P.ie think?

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/
You'll need to commission a Report, make sure you appoint the "right" people to get the answers that you want, and don't bother getting back to us.
 

Deadlock

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Elect members? (Democratic)

Or appoint them via a pollster? (Not democratic)
I think it's important to minimise overt input from political parties, and also to have a very different system for appointing members. I'm in favour of National Sortition for another reason - as the Register of Electors would be the basis of the list of potential members, it would encourage the maintenance of an up-to-date Register
 

Deadlock

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You'll need to commission a Report, make sure you appoint the "right" people to get the answers that you want, and don't bother getting back to us.
... and thus no different to everything else in National life :p
 

ger12

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I think it's important to minimise overt input from political parties, and also to have a very different system for appointing members. I'm in favour of National Sortition for another reason - as the Register of Electors would be the basis of the list of potential members, it would encourage the maintenance of an up-to-date Register
Yeh ... but it's still not democratic. Electing members is.
 

Deadlock

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Yeh ... but it's still not democratic. Electing members is.
How would you change the proposal to avoid overt party politics and maintain sufficient difference with the Dail so both remain relevant and are not competing legislatively or administratvely?
 
D

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I confess I'm big fan fan of the Citizens Assembly. As an exercise in democracy, it injects citizen viewpoints into the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues facing contemporary Ireland. Members deliberate impartial, expert, factual concerning these issues , and their conclusions inform the reports and recommendations to be submitted to Houses of the Oireachtas for further debate by our elected representatives.

But why stop there? Why not actually replace the Seanad as currently composed with spirit of the Citizens Assembly and rather than just inform reports and recommendations, the input instead forms the basis for reform of the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues in the real life - not just the narrow political life - of the nation.

Members to be empaneled on a the basis of National Sortition - along with alternates - for a single 4-5 year term, and current and previous members are automatically excluded from future selection.

What does P.ie think?

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/
Impartial deliberations - nah, don't think so.
 

Trainwreck

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I confess I'm big fan fan of the Citizens Assembly. As an exercise in democracy, it injects citizen viewpoints into the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues facing contemporary Ireland. Members deliberate impartial, expert, factual concerning these issues , and their conclusions inform the reports and recommendations to be submitted to Houses of the Oireachtas for further debate by our elected representatives.

But why stop there? Why not actually replace the Seanad as currently composed with spirit of the Citizens Assembly and rather than just inform reports and recommendations, the input instead forms the basis for reform of the pressing constitutional, political and legal issues in the real life - not just the narrow political life - of the nation.

Members to be empaneled on a the basis of National Sortition - along with alternates - for a single 4-5 year term, and current and previous members are automatically excluded from future selection.

What does P.ie think?

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/

I think you are a dangerous fúcking crackpot.

Following a public tendering process, Red C Research and Marketing Ltd were engaged to select the 99 citizen Members, and 99 substitutes, of the Assembly.

Brilliant.
 

Deadlock

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Members to be empaneled on a the basis of National Sortition - along with alternates - for a single 4-5 year term, and current and previous members are automatically excluded from future selection.

What does P.ie think?

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/
II'm in favour of National Sortition for another reason - as the Register of Electors would be the basis of the list of potential members, it would encourage the maintenance of an up-to-date Register
I think you are a dangerous fúcking crackpot.




Brilliant.
I take it you understand the principles of sortition? For example we don't turn jury selection over to polling companies, do we?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition
 

ger12

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Deadlock

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What Sortition Process is used and who oversees it.
Why is the Chair not picked from the body selected.
Sorry , don't buy it , but I'm getting old and cynical.
If not sortition, then what would you suggest as a replacement?
Indeed, you're quite correct - the chair could be appointed from the same body.
 

ger12

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Deadlock

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I find it interesting that most of the comments so far are showing concern about nomination to a body, which is itself already largely appointed by CoCo or the Taoiseach, with the exception of the 6 NUI / UoD seats which are subject to election, by an already very narrow constituency, and which I think is universally accepted as chronically unfair.

Would sortition not be fairer? If not which voting system would be fair, and sufficiently different from the PR:STV system, which already greatly feeds the parish pump?
 


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