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The curious tale of Anglo Irish Bank and its Austrian deposits


He3

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Oct 1, 2008
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17,094
What is it with us and banks anyway? How come no one bats an eyelid at this story in the Business Post two weeks ago?

At a time when it was in an apparent liquidity crisis Anglo sells a subsidiary bank in Austria that held over €600 million in deposits. Why would it do that? So keen was Anglo to do the deal that it lent the buyer €24 million of the €141 million sale price.

The curious tale of Anglo Irish Bank and its Austrian deposits

The sale of Anglo’s Austrian business was completed on December 19, 2008, the day after FitzPatrick resigned as chairman after his dodgy loan dealing had been uncovered.

..the Valartis annual report reveals that the Austrian operation manages about 1.6 billion Swiss francs (€1.25 billion) for about 4,000 private banking clients.

Those clients can now remain very private indeed, far away from the scrutiny of the Irish state which stepped in and nationalised Anglo Irish Bank in January 2009 in the wake of revelations about FitzPatrick concealing large loans from his shareholders.

One of the big advantages of having money on deposit with an Austrian bank is that the identity of depositors cannot be disclosed to the authorities, as Austria enjoys certain derogations from the EU Savings Directive. This was and remains a key attraction for those who deposit funds in Austria. [...]

Let’s hope those clients don’t include any Irish depositors who might owe money to Anglo, to other struggling Irish banks or to the Irish taxpayer.
 
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DCon

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Let’s hope those clients don’t include any Irish depositors who might owe money to Anglo, to other struggling Irish banks or to the Irish taxpayer.
But of course there are.

Lenihan encouraged it.

The Irish Labour Party today criticised the government for changing the proposed legislation to nationalise the Anglo Irish Bank. A clause relating to the withdrawal of money by customers who owe a lot of money and have more than €20m on deposit is being dropped.

The Fianna Fáil-led coalition had planned to restrict customers with deposits of more than €20m from withdrawing money if their debts were higher than that figure. Labour is questioning whether developers and businessmen lobbied against the move.
Investors fear for future of nationalised bank | Business | guardian.co.uk
 

JCR

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I think its perfectly clear from both of the above what happened here and Lenihan needs to be questioned seriously about it. This is the core of the rotten apple IMO. It has to be followed up.
 

Mar Tweedy

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Can you imagine if the Greens were in opposition? They would be hopping up and down about all this stuff - about the management of the entire banking crisis.

In government, silence.

Its all sickening.
 

Nipper

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May 19, 2009
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2,550
Thats the Anglo branch that was involved with the mafia and money laundering(google if you want details)

Now there are stories about the Vatican banks laundering money for the mafia.

Bertie and the sweetheart deal for the church springs to mind.

If you had the mafia and Vatican money in a bank would you garauntee it?
 

JCR

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Can you imagine if the Greens were in opposition? They would be hopping up and down about all this stuff - about the management of the entire banking crisis.

In government, silence.

Its all sickening.
This about more than the Greens though. There was thread here about the 'missing billions'. It now seems likely that Lenihan aided and abetted some of those 'missing billions' to leave the country. It doesn't take much of a leap of logic to come to this conclusion. There is supposed to be a Garda investigation into this - of course Anglo was given plenty of time to dump plenty of files before the Guards got there. Sooner or later a 'deepthroat' is going to have to give us the real story behind Lenihans perverse and sickening treatment of the taxpayers of this country.
 

cashinhand

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Dec 13, 2007
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Can you imagine if the Greens were in opposition? They would be hopping up and down about all this stuff - about the management of the entire banking crisis.

In government, silence.

Its all sickening.
Yah, it stinks to high heaven.

Would some young turks with financial analytical skills please join the Labour Party or one of the other opposition parties or new parties or start a new party and beef up the scrutiny of stories like this.

The silence is deafening.

Ireland is Sicily, without the sunshine.
 

JCR

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Yah, it stinks to high heaven.

Would some young turks with financial analytical skills please join the Labour Party or one of the other opposition parties or new parties or start a new party and beef up the scrutiny of stories like this.

The silence is deafening.

Ireland is Sicily, without the sunshine.
Whatever about new parties and so on (though it looks more and more like one is needed) it seems to me that these stories require seriosu investigative journalism of the type that uncovered the Watergate scandal. Its follow the money. Lets not forget there is a figure of 1.6 billion mentioned - this is over half the amount Lenihan intends slashing from spending in this years budget.
 

He3

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Whatever about new parties and so on (though it looks more and more like one is needed) it seems to me that these stories require serious investigative journalism of the type that uncovered the Watergate scandal. Its follow the money. Lets not forget there is a figure of 1.6 billion mentioned - this is over half the amount Lenihan intends slashing from spending in this years budget.
Kathleen Barrington in the SBP keeps coming out with stuff like this. She is not alone. What is missing is any institutional response. I wonder why?

The public are overloaded at this stage perhaps so this can just hide there in plain sight.
 

DCon

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This about more than the Greens though. There was thread here about the 'missing billions'. It now seems likely that Lenihan aided and abetted some of those 'missing billions' to leave the country. It doesn't take much of a leap of logic to come to this conclusion. There is supposed to be a Garda investigation into this - of course Anglo was given plenty of time to dump plenty of files before the Guards got there. Sooner or later a 'deepthroat' is going to have to give us the real story behind Lenihans perverse and sickening treatment of the taxpayers of this country.
And with the lack of documentation that was present in the banks, what was to stop a developer borrowing 1.5 billion for land that cost 600 million to buy and an estimated 400 million to develop?

The extra 500 million routed through a few Shell companies and placed back with Anglo as a deposit. Development cancelled due to crash; other 400 million lodged with Anglo.

Developer borrowed 1.5 Billion and spent 600 million while lodging 900 million with Anglo.

NAMA takes on loan, Developer moves deposit offshore (with Lenihan's change) - everyone's happy..
 

Gadfly

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Disillusioned democrat

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Kathleen Barrington in the SBP keeps coming out with stuff like this. She is not alone. What is missing is any institutional response. I wonder why?

The public are overloaded at this stage perhaps so this can just hide there in plain sight.
That's a great point - people in general are punch-drunk, and have lost all ability to keep track of/react appropriately to the conveyor belt of cash going from tax payers to banks, NAMA and beyond. I fondly recall when a billion was a lot of money - now it's just a word to describe the scale of FF's corruption.

I'm beginning to wonder - and this is purely personal speculation, but I'm serious - if Lenihan has been chosen for the role of MfF because he's unlikely to survive long enough to be accountable for the multiple strands of evidence of "economic treason" emerging.
 
Joined
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"A clause relating to the withdrawal of money by customers who owe a lot of money and have more than €20m on deposit is being dropped".

That's astonishing. Maybe I am reading it wrong but is that not tantamount to government sanctioned embezzlement. It's all beginning to feel like stuff that kids do when they think their parents won't catch them.
 

DCon

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"A clause relating to the withdrawal of money by customers who owe a lot of money and have more than €20m on deposit is being dropped".

That's astonishing. Maybe I am reading it wrong but is that not tantamount to government sanctioned embezzlement. It's all beginning to feel like stuff that kids do when they think their parents won't catch them.
It is astonishing, to honest people who care for Ireland.

To our government it is, unfortunately, par for the course..

The following amendment was proposed at committee stage of the Anglo Nationalisation bill.

Where €5,000,000 or more is owing to Anglo Irish Bank or a subsidiary
or subsidiary undertaking of Anglo Irish Bank in respect of a financial obligation of
a depositor in Anglo Irish Bank, the depositor may not, without the express written
consent of Anglo Irish Bank—
(a) reduce the deposit (whether held on trust or otherwise) below the amount
owing in respect of the financial obligation, or
(b) if at the commencement of this Act the deposit is less than the amount
owing to Anglo Irish Bank or the subsidiary or subsidiary undertaking
under the obligation, reduce the deposit at all.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/0109/b0109d-dcn.pdf

This was then changed to

Where €20,000,000 or more is owing to Anglo Irish Bank or a subsidiary
or subsidiary undertaking of Anglo Irish Bank in respect of a financial obligation of
a depositor in Anglo Irish Bank, the depositor may not, without the express written
consent of Anglo Irish Bank—
(a) reduce the deposit (whether held on trust or otherwise) below the amount
owing in respect of the financial obligation, or
(b) if at the commencement of this Act the deposit is less than the amount
owing to Anglo Irish Bank or the subsidiary or subsidiary undertaking
under the obligation, reduce the deposit at all.
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/0109/b0109d-dcn1.pdf


No mention in the actual Act: http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2009/a0109.pdf
 
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SideysGhost

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Nov 30, 2009
Messages
17,716
Ah shure Brian is a lovely fella, so sincere, doing his best poor lad, tough job, best interests of de little peeple at heart, God love him with his illness and all, shure how could ye be saying a bad word against him, a living saint he is!

I humbly submit it is now indisputably the solemn duty of any true Irish citizen to haul off with extreme prejudice on anyone you hear regurgitating pigswill like this.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
17
What is it with us and banks anyway? How come no one bats an eyelid at this story in the Business Post two weeks ago?

At a time when it was in an apparent liquidity crisis Anglo sells a subsidiary bank in Austria that held over €600 million in deposits. Why would it do that? So keen was Anglo to do the deal that it lent the buyer €24 million of the €141 million sale price.

The curious tale of Anglo Irish Bank and its Austrian deposits

The sale of Anglo’s Austrian business was completed on December 19, 2008, the day after FitzPatrick resigned as chairman after his dodgy loan dealing had been uncovered.

..the Valartis annual report reveals that the Austrian operation manages about 1.6 billion Swiss francs (€1.25 billion) for about 4,000 private banking clients.

Those clients can now remain very private indeed, far away from the scrutiny of the Irish state which stepped in and nationalised Anglo Irish Bank in January 2009 in the wake of revelations about FitzPatrick concealing large loans from his shareholders.

One of the big advantages of having money on deposit with an Austrian bank is that the identity of depositors cannot be disclosed to the authorities, as Austria enjoys certain derogations from the EU Savings Directive. This was and remains a key attraction for those who deposit funds in Austria. [...]

Let’s hope those clients don’t include any Irish depositors who might owe money to Anglo, to other struggling Irish banks or to the Irish taxpayer.

Wow, cheers for the heads up, He3!
 

olamp

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Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,452
It would just fall on deaf ears --Most people don`t seem to care or they just don`t want to know --Ostrischs or ignoramuses -you decide.
 

Gadfly

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Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
354
It is astonishing, to honest people who care for Ireland.

To our government it is, unfortunately, par for the course..

The following amendment was proposed at committee stage of the Anglo Nationalisation bill.



http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/0109/b0109d-dcn.pdf

This was then changed to



Thanks for this - a very enlightening example of a quasi miraculous evolution of a piece of legislation that happened upon a fairly direct conflict between the public interest, on The ond hand, and privileged private interests on the other.
If we are wondering why international investors are now so wary of Ireland Inc., could it be because they have sussed that the biddability of our political class now makes us a very risky proposition?
Houston, we have a problem.


http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/0109/b0109d-dcn1.pdf


No mention in the actual Act: http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2009/a0109.pdf
Thanks for this - a very enlightening example of a quasi miraculous evolution of a piece of legislation that happened upon a fairly direct conflict between the public interest, on The ond hand, and privileged private interests on the other.
If we are wondering why international investors are now so wary of Ireland Inc., could it be because they have sussed that the biddability of our political class now makes us a very risky proposition?
Houston, we have a problem.
 
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