The Economist Slams Irish Health Service

Massey

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Limerick University Hospital was supposed to get a lot more financing for the consolidation of Ennis and Nenagh. It serves a far bigger population than acute care hospitals in Dublin,maybe 50% more, hence more patients on trolleys.
That consolidation was only two hospitals out of maybe 25 more that need consolidation.
So more money should have been spent?
 


Uganda

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As far as i can tell the main driver of medical staff leaving Ireland is not pay but poor working conditions. I may be way off here but i'd strongly suspect many medics would accept european salaries for reasonable working hours and conditions.
The pi$$ poor antics which pass for non existent management in the hse contribute significantly to the poor working conditions.

Where the health minister has fallen down is in allowing these donkeys to continue on.
 

ruman

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It is unreformable as long as the Irish and their local TDs insist on a hospital in every town. There are about 29 acute care hospitals but maybe five would suffice with the completion of the motorways and provision of a good ambulance and helicopter service.
If our political leaders and senior civil servants are unwilling/incapable of reforming it perhaps it is time to bring the troika back. Failing that pay our taxation directly to germany to run a pan european health service.
 

Half Nelson

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Hardly " political point scoring". Allowing consultants to work part time in the public sector leaving public patients to be seen by inadequately vetted doctors is unacceptable.

Only issue i have with the article is that an Irish media outlet has failed to highlight these issues. We are an EU country and should aim to copy successful EU health services rather than blindly following the EU/UK.
If it takes further EU integration and a pan european health service to achieve this i am all for it. Certainly i would prefer my taxes go directly to Germany then allow the HSE to squander it.
The Irish media are bought and paid for. The newspapers and broadcasters even cover for each other.
Expect nothing from that corner.
 

Patslatt1

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The pi$$ poor antics which pass for non existent management in the hse contribute significantly to the poor working conditions.

Where the health minister has fallen down is in allowing these donkeys to continue on.
The cabinet donkeys share the blame.
 

Half Nelson

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Since digital ads destroyed their advertising base, the old media desperately need government ads and can't be too critical of government.
A state body, the RSA, sponsoring a current affairs programme on RTE should ring all sorts of alarm bells, but all we got was tumbleweed.
 

NYCKY

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Had an elderly relative go to see her doc recently. The doc sent her in for tests and set up an appointment with a consultant. The relative told me she received a bill for 160 euros and a letter a couple of days later saying that further appointments had been set up 'as requested' with another specialist/consultant.

The relative informed them that she hadn't requested any further appointments. After best part of a day in hospital being run through various machines and so on.

Turns out she had a small cyst behind the knee which was taken care of by a simple course of anti-biotics/anti-inflammatories. Her take on it was that the consultants involved were just recommending patients to each other on a money-spinner exercise. The proposed appointments she told them she never requested would have come in at about 460 odd euro.

And she has private medical cover which inevitably doesn't cover such treatments or referrals unless she has an overnight stay in hospital. I absolutely agree that this system of GPs referring constantly to consultants needs to be looked at because the system now seems almost entirely captured by these medical privateers.

And the GPs are propping it up.

Oddly enough, some people think the US should adapt this system. :oops:
 

petaljam

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Oddly enough, some people think the US should adapt this system. :oops:
My experience (limited but real) of the US system pre-ACA is that this is also what happens, ie lots and lots of often unnecessary tests, albeit restricted to those who have good insurance cover. And pretty much nothing outside of emergency care for the rest. How is that better?
 

Watcher2

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Its all well and good highlighting the deficiencies, however, it is not going to make a jot of difference. The deficiencies have been constantly highlighted for years but the service keeps deteriorating.

Until we have a strong political class, we will not have decent services. We are sadly lacking political leadership. We have been lacking it for a long time.
 

ruman

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Its all well and good highlighting the deficiencies, however, it is not going to make a jot of difference. The deficiencies have been constantly highlighted for years but the service keeps deteriorating.

Until we have a strong political class, we will not have decent services. We are sadly lacking political leadership. We have been lacking it for a long time.
The troika highlighted the need for reform in the health and legal professions here. Personally i would bring them back to do the job given our lot arent up to it.

The other possibility is further european integration will lead to a standardised pan european health service. I'd be happy for my taxation to go to germany in order to get a patient rather than Consultant/HSE focused health service.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Oddly enough, some people think the US should adapt this system. :oops:
The US system is simple. If you can afford healthcare insurance or direct costs then you are grand. If you are of the majority who can't then it is essentially 'die quietly'.

I don't call that a healthcare system.

The European view of this element of society is the right one in my view. That doesn't mean it doesn't have its own issues- and one of those in Ireland is the capture by private sector consultants parasitically living off the public health system.

It is an area that needs to be looked at. I believe the Troika did point out some of these 'cartel' arrangements in Ireland and it seemingly is the one area where Noonan lost his sh*t with the Troika team. Mainly because he is aware that there are cartels that each government has to prop up because of the historical patronage nature of our economy.
 

petaljam

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The US system is simple. If you can afford healthcare insurance or direct costs then you are grand. If you are of the majority who can't then it is essentially 'die quietly'.

I don't call that a healthcare system.
Well exactly. Providing health services to the well-off is within the capacities of most even minimally functioning regimes. Providing healthcare to the less well-off is what distinguishes an actual healthcare system.
What's the betting that private healthcare in Venezuela was among the last services to collapse, and public healthcare among the first?
 

NYCKY

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My experience (limited but real) of the US system pre-ACA is that this is also what happens, ie lots and lots of often unnecessary tests, albeit restricted to those who have good insurance cover. And pretty much nothing outside of emergency care for the rest. How is that better?

That's not been my experience. I can go straight to a specialist and often within days, no need of a referral and can do very quickly. I can schedule my own time, even for surgeries. Not endless usesless tests but much more proactive care. My experience with European Healthcare is very much as described in the post I was responding to, healthcare that looked after healthcare providers more than patients.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
That's not been my experience. I can go straight to a specialist and often within days, no need of a referral and can do very quickly. I can schedule my own time, even for surgeries. Not endless usesless tests but much more proactive care. My experience with European Healthcare is very much as described in the post I was responding to, healthcare that looked after healthcare providers more than patients.
And that is free, is it?
 

belcoo666

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Oddly enough, some people think the US should adapt this system. :oops:
Oddly enough the US should adapt any system other that the one it has which has tens of thousands of its citizens dying from lack of medical care which they cant afford to pay the corporations that own their country for .
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Depends whether you prefer to come from a country as opposed to a 'market'.
 

NYCKY

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Oddly enough the US should adapt any system other that the one it has which has tens of thousands of its citizens dying from lack of medical care which they cant afford to pay the corporations that own their country for .

Riiiight, cos no one in Ireland dies waiting for healthcare.
 

Watcher2

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The US really is ridiculous. A good friend of mine who lives there, with health insurance, had to attend hospital with heart complications. He spent three days on a trolly in a corridor in New York because Beyonce was having a baby or something and had booked out the whole floor. His wife is a nurse (but maybe not in the hospital he attended) and he said this type of thing is a regular occurrence.
 


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