The Economist Slams Irish Health Service

brughahaha

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People keep voting for high taxes combined with sh!te public services and tolerate a golden circle of overpaid and over pensioned vested interests and insiders ....

As long as that continues , so will everything else ..the rip offs , the massive taxes , the golden circle , the patronage system , the crap health service , the crap education service, the incompetence , the rotten Gardai, the zero accountability, the crap infrastructure and the enforced property crisis

Fools keep voting for it ...its going to keep happening ...suck it up peasants
 


Dame_Enda

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Reports today that corpses are being left on trollies in Waterford General Hospital. Its being discussed on Newstalk now.
 

Watcher2

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Reports today that corpses are being left on trollies in Waterford General Hospital. Its being discussed on Newstalk now.
Yep, read it here. Utterly shocking stuff.
Dead bodies left on trolleys in corridors at Waterford hospital

Keep the recovery going boys. How long is it now since Enda and FG have been beating the drum of "recovery"? You think we would have recovered enough by now to not allow this stuff happen (indeed, the way Enda spoke way back then, you'd think we were recovered enough to not have this type of almost black death inducing stuff happen).

If hammer is still an active poster, how much do you bet he will trott out the "€25bn deficit" line as a response here?
 

Dame_Enda

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Yep, read it here. Utterly shocking stuff.
Dead bodies left on trolleys in corridors at Waterford hospital

Keep the recovery going boys. How long is it now since Enda and FG have been beating the drum of "recovery"? You think we would have recovered enough by now to not allow this stuff happen (indeed, the way Enda spoke way back then, you'd think we were recovered enough to not have this type of almost black death inducing stuff happen).

If hammer is still an active poster, how much do you bet he will trott out the "€25bn deficit" line as a response here?
The new mortuary was approved in 2015. Where is it?
 

Massey

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All capital builds not started have been held up because of the Children's hospital fiasco.
 

General Urko

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The Revelation re the corpses leaking bodily fluids on trolleys today in Waterford Hospital, strongly indicates we have a 4th world healthcare system being paid for at beyond Scandinavian Prices.
Also it has been reported that efforts were made to surpress this story in the public interest.
Both of these are extremely serious matters.:mad:
 

Orbit v2

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The new mortuary was approved in 2015. Where is it?
There's something terribly wrong about this. It seems the HSE have just announced that it's to go ahead. So, either :-

a) the project was in the pipeline and would have gone ahead sooner or later, and you would have to ask what is to be gained from releasing a story like this, that would be very upsetting to families affected?

or

b) the HSE in usual reactive mode, reacts to the latest and most upsetting crisis.

(b) is obviously more likely. So, what way is this to run a health service? I remember when school building projects were handled in much the same way. The system was open to all kinds of political game playing and shenanigans, and they changed the system to make it more transparent and I think that took a lot of the politics out of it. Can't they do the same with capital investment in health? Publish a list of projects and the order they are to be done in which everyone has to sign up to ...
 

dizillusioned

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Having jus9t experienced the Irish “healthcare” system first hand for the past few days....what is evident is a lack of management skills.

Having someone with a suspected stroke waiting for 24 hours to be seen is NOT on. No one has any idea when a patient is going to be seen. No one has a clue in a&e what order people are being seen. Privacy is non-existent. The levels of cleanliness are appalling in facilities.

I do not blame the staff, I blame the management who are building sub standard hospitals, who do not have a clue about time management and lack of investment in correct time saving equipment and computerised records.

I know people give out about the American healthcare system but there is no way people would tolerate this system there. A disjointed system with no flow of patients, who has no one ultimately responsible for those who are admitted,

What I have seen over the past few days again, is something that I have never seen even in poorer countries than Ireland. I am glad that I personally, do have to partake in the substandard service. I feel sorry for all people who do (including my own family).

Mismanagement and the lack of people who know how to reorganize processes I totally evident in the HC system here. They all need to be replaced with competent planners, organizers and proper management.
 

Watcher2

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Having jus9t experienced the Irish “healthcare” system first hand for the past few days....what is evident is a lack of management skills.

Having someone with a suspected stroke waiting for 24 hours to be seen is NOT on. No one has any idea when a patient is going to be seen. No one has a clue in a&e what order people are being seen. Privacy is non-existent. The levels of cleanliness are appalling in facilities.

I do not blame the staff, I blame the management who are building sub standard hospitals, who do not have a clue about time management and lack of investment in correct time saving equipment and computerised records.

I know people give out about the American healthcare system but there is no way people would tolerate this system there. A disjointed system with no flow of patients, who has no one ultimately responsible for those who are admitted,

What I have seen over the past few days again, is something that I have never seen even in poorer countries than Ireland. I am glad that I personally, do have to partake in the substandard service. I feel sorry for all people who do (including my own family).

Mismanagement and the lack of people who know how to reorganize processes I totally evident in the HC system here. They all need to be replaced with competent planners, organizers and proper management.
There are similar problems in the US health system. People lay on trollies for days over there too, even when they have insurance. It happened to a friend of mine in New York a few years ago. He has diabetes and a heart problem where only 40% of his heart muscle works. he has a pacemaker fitted along with an internal defibrilator. He was left on a trolley in a public area of the hospital for days with another issue related to his heart. The reason was that Beyonce (or some other celebrity) was having a baby and booked out the whole floor in which she was staying so no room for sick people.
 

General Urko

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There are similar problems in the US health system. People lay on trollies for days over there too, even when they have insurance. It happened to a friend of mine in New York a few years ago. He has diabetes and a heart problem where only 40% of his heart muscle works. he has a pacemaker fitted along with an internal defibrilator. He was left on a trolley in a public area of the hospital for days with another issue related to his heart. The reason was that Beyonce (or some other celebrity) was having a baby and booked out the whole floor in which she was staying so no room for sick people.
And our system is modeled on tyhe insanre American System and is a complete outlier in The European Context.
 

dizillusioned

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There are similar problems in the US health system. People lay on trollies for days over there too, even when they have insurance. It happened to a friend of mine in New York a few years ago. He has diabetes and a heart problem where only 40% of his heart muscle works. he has a pacemaker fitted along with an internal defibrilator. He was left on a trolley in a public area of the hospital for days with another issue related to his heart. The reason was that Beyonce (or some other celebrity) was having a baby and booked out the whole floor in which she was staying so no room for sick people.
Not my experience, both with and without insurance.

Unless you are seen within 15 minutes in a&e by the triage nurse AND the doctor in three of my local hospitals they will not charge you. Sign up as you go it to this effect.

My experiences have been that I have been dealt with in a professional and caring manner with all required tests being done within one hour of being admitted to the a&e. MRI, CT and results read and analysed by the correct specialist immediately. No trollies in any of the hospitals, just examination tables in a private room. Not curtains where everyone can see and hear what is being said.
 

Ardillaun

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The US system costs too much. Nobody is seriously looking at that as a model to follow.
 

Orbit v2

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The US system costs too much. Nobody is seriously looking at that as a model to follow.
True. Some people I know had to attend an A&E in the US. It was very professional and quick, with loads of doctors falling over themselves. But, when they got the bill for it, as it turned out their insurance didn't cover it, they'd have been happy to suffer Irish A&E delays.
 

Watcher2

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True. Some people I know had to attend an A&E in the US. It was very professional and quick, with loads of doctors falling over themselves. But, when they got the bill for it, as it turned out their insurance didn't cover it, they'd have been happy to suffer Irish A&E delays.
Our extortionate level of taxes is our insurance policy. It was another attempted hoodwink recently when FG attempted to claim Universal Health Insurance was something we needed to introduce as a nation. Our taxes and social insurance IS Universal Health Insurance.
 

Sweet Darling

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Medical litigation makes GPs risk averse. As generalists, they can't defend themselves by claiming specialist expertise in a particular medical case, unlike consultants. The excessively bureaucratic Irish system of hospital and HSE directed health care is better for the threats of medical litigation which at least forces some reforms. Basically, health care is an unmanagable workers co-op for heavily unionised workers and consultants.
A medical specialist on Newstalk yesterday who worked in a Boston hospital mentioned a system typical in the US where enough doctors are available on weekends to discharge patients and free up lots of beds. Here, the beds are blocked while patients lie on trolleys.
An indication of ineptness in the HSE is the failure to provide relatively simple cataract surgery to prevent blindness. This was publicised by the news that busloads of cataract patients on waiting lists went from Cork to Northern Ireland for treatment.
Consultants are reluctant to free up one of their beds on a Friday in case it's occupied with a public patient when they arrive back in Monday morning.
 

Sweet Darling

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Health boards couldn't achieve the economies of scale of centres of excellence for very expensive treatments such as cancers. Maybe a few regional health boards could have done so but the government decided to copy the NHS model. If properly run, the HSE in our small country wouldn't be bureaucratic like the NHS with its 1 million plus workers.
Centers of excellences were created to improve the outcome for patients by the staff having a high level of experience due to the high volume of cases going through. Before the little sleepyville hospitals staff suffered from skills decay
 

dizillusioned

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Centers of excellences were created to improve the outcome for patients by the staff having a high level of experience due to the high volume of cases going through. Before the little sleepyville hospitals staff suffered from skills decay
Only they do not have the basic equipment needed in most hospitals. Like a heart monitor...personal experience and also anecdotal from a friend’s brother yesterday facing the same issue I am facing with a relative right now...
 

Massey

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Only they do not have the basic equipment needed in most hospitals. Like a heart monitor...personal experience and also anecdotal from a friend’s brother yesterday facing the same issue I am facing with a relative right now...
Wgich hospital does not have a heart monitor?
 


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