The end of the "baptism barrier" in school admissions

DaveM

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From today's Irish Times:

Bruton set to pledge end of school

Minister for Education Richard Bruton maintains the Dáil “has an appetite” to deal with the ‘baptism barrier’ issue and that there is a clear timetable for legislation.

Mr Bruton will on Monday announce plans to remove the baptism barrier from schools to ensure children from non-religious backgrounds are not discriminated against in school admission policies.
He will say he believes it is unfair that publicly funded religious schools are able to give preference to children of their own religion ahead of those of no religion who may live closer to the school.
Mr Bruton will set out four possible approaches for dealing with the issue at primary level, in the first instance. They include: A “catchment area” approach, prohibiting religious schools from giving preference to children of their own religion who live outside the catchment area ahead of non-religious children who live close by.

A “nearest school rule”, allowing religious schools to give preference to a religious child only where it is that child’s nearest school of that religion.

A quota system, which would allow a religious school set aside a certain number of places for children of its own religion.

And a ban on religious schools using religion as a factor in admissions.
About time this issue was addressed in my opinion. Parents baptizing their children for no other reason than getting them into a local school is something very many people are familiar with and is simply plain wrong.

My personal preference would be for the introduction of a complete ban on publically funded schools using religion as a factor in admissions.
 


ruserious

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Next job. Take the patronage away from religious institutions and place them firmly where they belong; the State.
 

TheField

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Next job. Take the patronage away from religious institutions and place them firmly where they belong; the State.
That should be the first job and would obviate the need for legislation on baptism etc.

I'd guess though that will be a case of getting the popcorn out and watching the forthcoming battle.
 

between the bridges

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Ah jaysus next thing ye know proddies will be allowed to teach in Catholic schools...
 

talkingshop

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From today's Irish Times:

Bruton set to pledge end of school







About time this issue was addressed in my opinion. Parents baptizing their children for no other reason than getting them into a local school is something very many people are familiar with and is simply plain wrong.

My personal preference would be for the introduction of a complete ban on publically funded schools using religion as a factor in admissions.
I would imagine that no one would have a problem with the "nearest school" rule i.e. allowing religious schools to give preference to a religious child only where it is that child’s nearest school of that religion.

I see also he said that "the greatest problem may be posed for minority religions and that this could be covered by the catchment rule." I don't know what that means if the catchment rule would prohibit "religious schools from giving preference to children of their own religion who live outside the catchment area ahead of non-religious children who live close by". If he proposed that a different arrangement would be made for minority religions as compared to the Catholic religion, I can't see that this would be Constitutional.
 

talkingshop

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The fun will start when they try to exempt CoI schools from the requirements.
Absolutely. If they are going to enforce this for the RCC, it should also be enforced for the C of I, and any Muslim or Jewish schools also - have to be fair about it. :lol:
 

DaveM

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I would imagine that no one would have a problem with the "nearest school" rule i.e. allowing religious schools to give preference to a religious child only where it is that child’s nearest school of that religion.

I see also he said that "the greatest problem may be posed for minority religions and that this could be covered by the catchment rule." I don't know what that means if the catchment rule would prohibit "religious schools from giving preference to children of their own religion who live outside the catchment area ahead of non-religious children who live close by". If he proposed that a different arrangement would be made for minority religions as compared to the Catholic religion, I can't see that this would be Constitutional.
Simple solution. No religion in schools. If the religious education of their children is genuinely important to parents then they shouldn't feel the need to outsource it.
 
D

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The fun will start when they try to exempt CoI schools from the requirements.
Correct - and I don't know if there are any Jewish schools in Ireland but in the UK Jewish schools are for Jewish kids.....end of story.
 

DaveM

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Absolutely. If they are going to enforce this for the RCC, it should also be enforced for the C of I, and any Muslim or Jewish schools also - have to be fair about it. :lol:
It should apply to any school in receipt of any funding whatsoever from the state.
 

talkingshop

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Simple solution. No religion in schools. If the religious education of their children is genuinely important to parents then they shouldn't feel the need to outsource it.
That's not going to happen in the foreseeable future though.
 

DaveM

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That's not going to happen in the foreseeable future though.
Not in the short term. However it's quite possible in the longer term given the continuous and ongoing decline in religious observance.
 

TheField

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Simple solution. No religion in schools. If the religious education of their children is genuinely important to parents then they shouldn't feel the need to outsource it.
Couldn't agree more with you.

And that's how primary education largely started out with the Kildare Place Society in the 1800s.

It's still largely the case with CofI schools as far as I know. No holy communion or confirmation classes there. It's all done outside in the parish during the child's evenings and weekends.
 

talkingshop

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It should apply to any school in receipt of any funding whatsoever from the state.
Somehow I suspect though that the government will try to make an exemption for C of I schools, and the couple of Muslim/Jewish schools. Clearly the RCC should not accept any such discriminatory treatment if the government were to try it. :)
 

Emily Davison

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The fun will start when they try to exempt CoI schools from the requirements.
The real fun on here will start when Shane of the Glen finds this thread.
 

ger12

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DaveM

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Somehow I suspect though that the government will try to make an exemption for C of I schools, and the couple of Muslim/Jewish schools. Clearly the RCC should not accept any such discriminatory treatment if the government were to try it. :)
All in receipt of state funding should be treated equally. However let's not pretend that the main obstacle to addressing this issue is any organisation other than the Catholic Church who account for more than 90% of primary schools.
 

talkingshop

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All in receipt of state funding should be treated equally. However let's not pretend that the main obstacle to addressing this issue is any organisation other than the Catholic Church who account for more than 90% of primary schools.
Do you think so? I suspect that the C of I will be equally uncooperative about any measure that will not allow them to give preference to Church of Ireland kids. As will the tiny number of Muslim/Jewish schools in relation to kids of their religion.
 


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