The end of the line for the RCC?

statsman

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In an interesting opinion piece in the Irish Times, Mark Patrick Hederman predicts that the church of which he is a member has at most a decade to adapt or become 'an irrelevant minority'. Hederman, a monk in Glenstal Abbey, is one of Irish Catholicism's best minds, and it's not going to be easy to ignore his call for a 21st century church, one that recognises gender and sexual diversity, the role of women and of the feminine principle that resides in all of us, the importance of science and the absolute need for democracy.

As an interested outsider, I think he is probably right, and that it's unlikely that the essentially conservative RCC is capable of the kinds of necessary change he highlights. If he and I are both right, this has huge significance to what Ireland will look like in 2027.
Have a read and see what you think:

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/the-catholic-church-has-at-most-10-years-to-adapt-or-become-an-irrelevant-minority-1.3084834

[Mods: This belongs in Social Affairs, not Culture & Community, in my view. If you disagree, please move.]
 


Kevin Parlon

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On a side note, given the angle you're talking about; social affairs is where it belongs. Further to the side, are there actually mods here still?
 

flavirostris

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78% of people professed themselves to be RCC in the 2016 census.
 

razorblade

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And good riddance to it and all, the day we are free from the shackles of organised religion, is the day we can finally enter the modern civilised world.
 

Kevin Parlon

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A number of commentators have commented upon Christianity's decline with special regard to Europe. The consensus (and I don't know if I agree with it) is that, consumerism, ever increasing health, wealth and opportunity and range of on-offer experiences go a long way but do not meet the challenge Europe faces; "meaning". In this regard, it is especially ill-equipped to face down the challenge posed to it by what is for all intents and purposes the Christianity of the 16th century: Islam. The remedies are all the same and to me, unattractive; a call back to the church. I think what they should do is put out the call to a Christianity without Christ, which is to say: Humanism. Sam Harris is in the vanguard of this movement. Something that values reason and rationality, but is not wanting of meaning and fulfilment in a way that pure atheism is.
 

Kevin Parlon

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I've a relation in Glenstall. He's very calm and very zen. But he's totally divorced from life.
 

eoghanacht

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78% of people professed themselves to be RCC in the 2016 census.
Just none of them go to Mass.

Dying on its arse, if it weren't for the grip the RCC had on the schools the hatched, matched and dispacted brigade wouldn't bother their arse.

It's gotten so bad they have to prove their mass attendance in order that they might receive communion. That's how devout the dwindling congregation is it has to be reminded to attend the central ceremony of their faith.

Muwhaha...
 

statsman

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78% of people professed themselves to be RCC in the 2016 census.
Down from 84% in 2011, assuming an exponential change in the rate of decline, that projects ro 48% in 2026. And mass attendance is in freefall, as low as 2% in parts of Dublin. That census figure is actually very, very cold comfort.
 
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Texal Tom

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The church of Ireland (Anglican) is all those modern whatever you're having yourself and it is a much more frail species despite its openness to modernity.
 

A Voice

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This great mind Hederman meandered around a few hobby horses on Finucane's show the other day. Waffle, it was. Thinks Trump is the patriarchy's last stand before the USA is swept along in a matriarchal tide. And other hot takes . . . :lol:
 

GDPR

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"And be not conformed to this world; but be reformed in the newness of your mind, that you may prove what is the good, and the acceptable, and the perfect will of God." Romans 12:2.

Effectively what he is writing- which comes as no surprise to anyone who knows this man, or at least a little about him- that the Church should conform to the world (which according to the New Testament stands under the verdict of condemnation- 1 Corinthians 11:32, but there are other places this is touched on as well) so that it can continue to be relevant, but relevant to who and why? If it is not being relevant to worshipping the Holy Trinity in Spirit and in Truth and preparing souls to enter Heaven that what use is it? Also it is noteworthy that the enemies of Our Lord and His Church are always very quick to praise Churchmen such as this Abbot and Anti-Pope Francis.
 

tsarbomb

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"Gender diversity"? I wonder what that means.

Just because the RCC is socially conservative doesn't mean that it will become irrelevant in the future. The declining numbers of Catholics is mainly down to the scandals which have engulfed the Church and very little to do with its social outlook.
 

benroe

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The church of Ireland (Anglican) is all those modern whatever you're having yourself and it is a much more frail species despite its openness to modernity.
This is the tightrope that all religions have to walk, they claim incontrovertible unerring immutable knowelege that does not account for changes in society or moral variations and look weak or hypocritical when they are forced to change.
 

GDPR

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This great mind Hederman meandered around a few hobby horses on Finucane's show the other day. Waffle, it was. Thinks Trump is the patriarchy's last stand before the USA is swept along in a matriarchal tide. And other hot takes . . . :lol:
He was extremely cruel to Desmond Fennell who is a man I and my better half are greatly fond of.
 

statsman

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"Gender diversity"? I wonder what that means.

Just because the RCC is socially conservative doesn't mean that it will become irrelevant in the future. The declining numbers of Catholics is mainly down to the scandals which have engulfed the Church and very little to do with its social outlook.
Read the link.
 

tsarbomb

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Just none of them go to Mass.

Dying on its arse, if it weren't for the grip the RCC had on the schools the hatched, matched and dispacted brigade wouldn't bother their arse.

It's gotten so bad they have to prove their mass attendance in order that they might receive communion. That's how devout the dwindling congregation is it has to be reminded to attend the central ceremony of their faith.

Muwhaha...
If it weren't for the grip that the Church had on schools many people wouldn't have been educated.
 

GDPR

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"Gender diversity"? I wonder what that means.

Just because the RCC is socially conservative doesn't mean that it will become irrelevant in the future. The declining numbers of Catholics is mainly down to the scandals which have engulfed the Church and very little to do with its social outlook.
A lot of it has to do really with effeminate Priests who preach mushy snuggle-bunnyish and not the Gospel of Christ. The "ah sure aren't we all grand" attitude turns off people who are serious minded. It is an ordeal often to sit through sermons in the Novus Ordo. Better for people to travel to a Traditional/Latin Mass and avoid the mainstream Church.
 


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