The EU is telling us we need to take a bailout to protect the eurozone, why?

vanla sighs

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Sep 1, 2009
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Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to economics but I cannot understand this? We're told we have to put ourselves in tens of billions of debt, possibly 100 billion, to safeguard other eurozone states? Why? We're told about "contagion" as though high interest rates on borrowing was some kind of influenza but what the hell are we doing? Why should we sacrifice ourselves for others? It may suit Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and even Germany and France but what when it doesn't suit us?

What's to say that after we take on this huge debt burden and invite the EU and IMF in that that "contagion" will ease? There's none as far as I can see. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Problem is that the EU knows Ireland is a walkover, that we'll always fold - with the Irish government it's not a game of poker, it's donkey. They know that at the end of the day that this government will in effect do what its told whether it's in the overall interest of Ireland or not. Why can't the government simply say: no, we're not taking the bailout. Simple as that. We're funded until May 2011 and we'll go back to the markets then and if rates are still too high we'll then ask the IMF or EU for help - but not right now. Why can't they say that?

The problem we have with our banks is a European problem and to that end the ECB will have to continue to buy Irish government bonds. After all the ECB is now our central bank in effect. After all had it not been for cheap credit from Europe we could never have even gotten into the mess we're in in the first place! Or am I mistaken?

Maybe I'm missing something or not seeing the "bigger picture" and if that's so feel free to correct me. Thanks.
 


mothball

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The government won't say no because they do not care. They never have cared and they never will. They've got all the money they need right now. They spent the last two years ensuring that all their friends are catered for.
We already know that with Fianna Fáil, Europe comes before the citizens of Ireland. Our only hope is that the FF party comes before Europe, which of course it does. Even with that, it might be too late to do any good.
 

nuj

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I'd leave the "it's their fault for lending to us" argument to one side but, yes, you're right. It's European, and Ireland can't be dealt with in isolation.
 

Vote_No_on_Everything

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Feb 16, 2009
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I saw this written by someone on Pie a while back and it comes to mind now.
' if it cant be explained to you simply then its a scam'
is a bit like the concept of 'Tax Credits' which replaced 'Tax free allowance'
or The Dept of Law Reform & Equality, which Deforms Law and creates a more un-equal society
 

/etc

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This video from Max Keiser may help.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFHgcFlrlw]Why Do they want us to go to IMF/ECB now?[/ame]
 

new jewell

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Feb 7, 2009
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Pyramid scheme ,House of cards,call it what you like,it's a scam with little oul Ireland at the bottom but remember the higher you are the harder the fall.
 

forest

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Mar 19, 2006
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sorry missed the 9.00 clock news
Just saw a news bulletin
It is saying Ireland has agreed (at least in principle) to a bank bail out is this true
 

conservative green

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Oct 1, 2008
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Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to economics but I cannot understand this? We're told we have to put ourselves in tens of billions of debt, possibly 100 billion, to safeguard other eurozone states? Why? We're told about "contagion" as though high interest rates on borrowing was some kind of influenza but what the hell are we doing? Why should we sacrifice ourselves for others? It may suit Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and even Germany and France but what when it doesn't suit us?

What's to say that after we take on this huge debt burden and invite the EU and IMF in that that "contagion" will ease? There's none as far as I can see. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Problem is that the EU knows Ireland is a walkover, that we'll always fold - with the Irish government it's not a game of poker, it's donkey. They know that at the end of the day that this government will in effect do what its told whether it's in the overall interest of Ireland or not. Why can't the government simply say: no, we're not taking the bailout. Simple as that. We're funded until May 2011 and we'll go back to the markets then and if rates are still too high we'll then ask the IMF or EU for help - but not right now. Why can't they say that?

The problem we have with our banks is a European problem and to that end the ECB will have to continue to buy Irish government bonds. After all the ECB is now our central bank in effect. After all had it not been for cheap credit from Europe we could never have even gotten into the mess we're in in the first place! Or am I mistaken?

Maybe I'm missing something or not seeing the "bigger picture" and if that's so feel free to correct me. Thanks.
The problem is that Merkel started a run on the Irish banks a few weeks ago in order than a bailout would be required and we would have to run cap in hand. Organised economic warfare, in other words. The solution presented is more power for Europe.

Classic NWO modus operandi, in fact. Perhaps David Icke and Alex Jones had a point all along.
 

patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
Messages
13,637
How can austerity be done in the face of the Croke Park Agreement?

Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to economics but I cannot understand this? We're told we have to put ourselves in tens of billions of debt, possibly 100 billion, to safeguard other eurozone states? Why? We're told about "contagion" as though high interest rates on borrowing was some kind of influenza but what the hell are we doing? Why should we sacrifice ourselves for others? It may suit Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and even Germany and France but what when it doesn't suit us?

What's to say that after we take on this huge debt burden and invite the EU and IMF in that that "contagion" will ease? There's none as far as I can see. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Problem is that the EU knows Ireland is a walkover, that we'll always fold - with the Irish government it's not a game of poker, it's donkey. They know that at the end of the day that this government will in effect do what its told whether it's in the overall interest of Ireland or not. Why can't the government simply say: no, we're not taking the bailout. Simple as that. We're funded until May 2011 and we'll go back to the markets then and if rates are still too high we'll then ask the IMF or EU for help - but not right now. Why can't they say that?

The problem we have with our banks is a European problem and to that end the ECB will have to continue to buy Irish government bonds. After all the ECB is now our central bank in effect. After all had it not been for cheap credit from Europe we could never have even gotten into the mess we're in in the first place! Or am I mistaken?

Maybe I'm missing something or not seeing the "bigger picture" and if that's so feel free to correct me. Thanks.
The government austerity programme lacks credibility thanks to the Croke Park Agreement.Croker exempts from cuts the pay and pensions of the public sector,while it is very difficult if not impossible politically to make significant cuts in social welfare and old age pensions. So most of the four year austerity programme would disproportionately hit the remaining spend.

It is difficult to see how this can happen without gutting front line services. For example,Health Minister Harney admitted that cuts must come from the 30% of health spending that is not pay and pensions. That suggests that many hospitals will be closing departments or allowed to wither on the vine. Up to a point,such a consolidation of hospitals is long overdue.

Balancing the books in the next four to six years will be very difficult if interest rates don't drop to reasonable levels. Six years from now,debt could be 130% of GNP of say €150 billion or about €195 billion. At interest rates in the range of 5 to 8%,the interest would be €9.8 to €15.6 billion. That's 6.5% to 10.4% of GNP.

If government spending is reduced enough from the present ludicrous level in 2010 of about 58% of GNP,the interest burden would be bearable. Government spending obviously has to be cut to make room for ballooning interest. Without such cuts,interest increases likely would push government spending to well above 60% of GNP,clearly unsustainable. It is unlikely government spending will drop below the high forties percents,given that the portion of the budget left over after interest payments would be about 38 to 41% of GNP,compared to about 55% this year.

That's a drop in the ratio of 25 to 31% and it has to be achieved largely through cuts in government spending as opposed to growing the private sector. With two years of austerity already,it is unlikely that the public sector could be held in check for four to six more years,so it is critical that deep cuts be front loaded.
Edit/Delete Message
 
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CorkOB

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Joined
Sep 14, 2010
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84
The problem is that Merkel started a run on the Irish banks a few weeks ago in order than a bailout would be required and we would have to run cap in hand. Organised economic warfare, in other words. The solution presented is more power for Europe.

Classic NWO modus operandi, in fact. Perhaps David Icke and Alex Jones had a point all along.
I've just joined this thread late. This is most interesting. How did she do this...by suggesting a default on the bondholders? Has she also indoctrinated D McW. I always knew there was the touch of the Nazi in that fella.
 

realist

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May 3, 2006
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Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to economics but I cannot understand this? We're told we have to put ourselves in tens of billions of debt, possibly 100 billion, to safeguard other eurozone states? Why? We're told about "contagion" as though high interest rates on borrowing was some kind of influenza but what the hell are we doing? Why should we sacrifice ourselves for others? It may suit Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and even Germany and France but what when it doesn't suit us?

What's to say that after we take on this huge debt burden and invite the EU and IMF in that that "contagion" will ease? There's none as far as I can see. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Problem is that the EU knows Ireland is a walkover, that we'll always fold - with the Irish government it's not a game of poker, it's donkey. They know that at the end of the day that this government will in effect do what its told whether it's in the overall interest of Ireland or not. Why can't the government simply say: no, we're not taking the bailout. Simple as that. We're funded until May 2011 and we'll go back to the markets then and if rates are still too high we'll then ask the IMF or EU for help - but not right now. Why can't they say that?

The problem we have with our banks is a European problem and to that end the ECB will have to continue to buy Irish government bonds. After all the ECB is now our central bank in effect. After all had it not been for cheap credit from Europe we could never have even gotten into the mess we're in in the first place! Or am I mistaken?

Maybe I'm missing something or not seeing the "bigger picture" and if that's so feel free to correct me. Thanks.
Over the last few months the ECB bought €90b worth of Irish bonds to ensure that Ireland would reimburse the gamblers who invested in Irish banks.

Now that those gamblers have been paid, the ECB are saying that the taxpayers of Ireland must repay them so they will loan us €80b over 4 years to do so (at a minimum of 5% interest).

It is similar to you or me being told to take out a new credit card to pay off the debt you owe on your original credit card even though your original credit card had been stolen and depleted by someone else in the casinos of Las Vegas.
 

eoghanacht

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Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
32,410
Now I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to economics but I cannot understand this? We're told we have to put ourselves in tens of billions of debt, possibly 100 billion, to safeguard other eurozone states? Why? We're told about "contagion" as though high interest rates on borrowing was some kind of influenza but what the hell are we doing? Why should we sacrifice ourselves for others? It may suit Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece and even Germany and France but what when it doesn't suit us?

What's to say that after we take on this huge debt burden and invite the EU and IMF in that that "contagion" will ease? There's none as far as I can see. Maybe I'm mistaken?

Problem is that the EU knows Ireland is a walkover, that we'll always fold - with the Irish government it's not a game of poker, it's donkey. They know that at the end of the day that this government will in effect do what its told whether it's in the overall interest of Ireland or not. Why can't the government simply say: no, we're not taking the bailout. Simple as that. We're funded until May 2011 and we'll go back to the markets then and if rates are still too high we'll then ask the IMF or EU for help - but not right now. Why can't they say that?

The problem we have with our banks is a European problem and to that end the ECB will have to continue to buy Irish government bonds. After all the ECB is now our central bank in effect. After all had it not been for cheap credit from Europe we could never have even gotten into the mess we're in in the first place! Or am I mistaken?

Maybe I'm missing something or not seeing the "bigger picture" and if that's so feel free to correct me. Thanks.

The Euro is the new anglo...... it's too big to fail!

Meanwhile we have gauranteed bondholders investments and in return they are undermining us and when we return for more to the market next year they'll crucify us.

There is no gaurantee 'contagion' won't spread, it will. They (europe) are like FF were, trying a damage limitation exercise, an orderley retreat. If this draws out any longer Ireland Inc will be set adrift.

I purpose we do so on our terms.

The rest of the 'piigs' are terrified because they can see that they can go the same way, and the tree main driving economies (Germany, France and Britain) will enter into a depression. These are dark days ahead of us unless we pull this out of the fire.

The 'euro project' has failed, time we and they realised that fact.
 


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