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The EU is unsustainable + Disastrous Love affair & immolation apology .. Reform in the air?

robut

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Two articles of news have surfaced last two three days that struck me. Particularly as these items came from Standard & Poors and the IMF.

THIS:

IMF admits disastrous love affair with the euro and apologises for the immolation of Greece

The International Monetary Fund’s top staff misled their own board, made a series of calamitous misjudgments in Greece, became euphoric cheerleaders for the euro project, ignored warning signs of impending crisis, and collectively failed to grasp an elemental concept of currency theory.

This is the lacerating verdict of the IMF’s top watchdog on the fund’s tangled political role in the eurozone debt crisis, the most damaging episode in the history of the Bretton Woods institutions.

It describes a “culture of complacency”, prone to “superficial and mechanistic” analysis, and traces a shocking breakdown in the governance of the IMF, leaving it unclear who is ultimately in charge of this extremely powerful organisation.

AND THIS:

Top credit ratings agency, Standard and Poor's (S&P) declares European Union "unsustainable" | City A.M.

Standard and Poor's (S&P), one of the world's top credit ratings agencies, has branded the current European Union "unsustainable" as it outlined the urgent need for reform.

"The problem is this," S&P stated in a new report out today: "The EU, as it is currently constructed and operates, doesn't embody a coherent 'pooling' of the various dimensions of nation-state sovereignty, and therefore it's unsustainable in its current form."

So it seems we are at a crossroad ( once again?? ) where the EU is concerned and the Eurozone. So at this crossroad will we just stop here and decide to then and as usual - kick the can OR will we see far reaching reform toward a Europe we want ... or a Europe we dont want. Tusk by the way IS NOT for a vision of a federation right now ( detailed in link below )

https://www.socialeurope.eu/2016/07/renewed-case-ever-closer-union-federal-europe/

After the ‘seismic’ shock of ‘Brexit’ a re-appraisal is taking place in the EU concerning the future direction the remaining 27 member states could take. There are three possibilities:

- ‘more Europe’
- ‘less Europe’
- ‘business as usual’
Well PIE Guys - Whats next for Europe & us?

I wonder is all the above a prelude to SOMETHING Big coming from the EU/EZ ??
 
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Dame_Enda

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Freedom of movement must be more constrained. A greater focus on workers rights is needed. Dennis Skinner MP said he opposed Enlargement as it would push the EU to the Right. The composition of the EP confirms this to be true though it's very divided between the free market Right and Euro sceptic Social Right and Far Right. The cronyism that leads to the Left and Right federalists rotating the Presidency of the EP makes decision making too cumbersome and slow.

The unelected Commission urgently needs reform. Above all the EP lobbyist register must become compulsory not as now voluntary. There must be more transparency surrounding TTIP. The EP fund allowing the EP to fund groups the majority in the EP likes must be scrapped. EU funding yes campaigns in EU referendums most stop. Politicians under investigation should be banned from becoming EU officials unless exonerated. Juncker should resign until Luxleaks investigations are complete.

The EPs attempts to silence the Panama Papers whistle-blowers must stop.
 
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Spanner Island

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Ireland could be a test case for €uro reversal... we're small enough and nimble enough.

If the feckin' €uro could be created it can certainly be reversed... despite what the EU wet dreamers claim.

We could therefore extract ourselves from it by either pegging a new punt to Sterling or the US Dollar and work it that way.

It is the €uro that has the EU really f***ed because the EU wet dreamers in their appalling arrogance presumed their agenda would happen by hook or by crook regardless of the consequences and despite any justifiable and legitimate opposition to their 'plan'. And they cynically used the €uro to help cement the destiny they wanted while they made an utter balls of it in the process.

The worry of course is that the only solutions proposed to the articles in the OP will be for 'more Europe' and that Ireland's arse licking 'establishment' will be at the front cheering the gobsh!tes on...

The hope however, would be that across Europe enough people will realise the project is doomed and that a pragmatic process will occur over time to adjust it and reverse it back to what it should have been left as about 20 years ago.
 

daveL

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Two articles of news have surfaced last two three days that struck me. Particularly as these items came from Standard & Poors and the IMF.

THIS:

IMF admits disastrous love affair with the euro and apologises for the immolation of Greece




AND THIS:

Top credit ratings agency, Standard and Poor's (S&P) declares European Union "unsustainable" | City A.M.




So it seems we are at a crossroad ( once again?? ) where the EU is concerned and the Eurozone. So at this crossroad will we just stop here and decide to then and as usual - kick the can OR will we see far reaching reform toward a Europe we want ... or a Europe we dont want. Tusk by the way IS NOT for a vision of a federation right now ( detailed in link below )

https://www.socialeurope.eu/2016/07/renewed-case-ever-closer-union-federal-europe/



Well PIE Guys - Whats next for Europe & us?
'we' is only the group of people you align with..

the problem is is that there are many competing "we's"..

what reforms do you want?
 

robut

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'we' is only the group of people you align with..

the problem is is that there are many competing "we's"..

what reforms do you want?
Well I only used WE in this context with no opinion relayed - "will we see far reaching reform toward a Europe we want ... or a Europe we dont want." Then over to you guys, interested to hear what PIEers have to say.

Where I am concerned it is a definite YES to economic EU close to what it was in the past. A definite NO to federalism / USoE. When travelling in Europe I love DIFFERENCE, thats why I travel. i dont want to see a McDONALDS type Europe.

With respect to the EURO .. in my own little business ( me ) .. I did lose money once we switched from IR£ to €. As happened with alot of small businesses the amounts converted directly from IR£ to € with an immediate 20% ( If i remember right? ) drop when converted. So at the moment I am betwixt and between where the EURO is concerned. Can we back out of it .. by WE I mean all the Eurozone or maybe just us?
 

Sister Mercedes

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I blame the Irish Supreme Court for much of the EU's problems. The Crotty Judgment and subsequent defeat of Nice and Lisbon had the effect of reducing the ambitions of the EU to progress, because policymakers felt they had to formulate changes that were within the existing treaties. So we are left with a half-finished, half-assed monetary union.
 

robut

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I blame the Irish Supreme Court for much of the EU's problems. The Crotty Judgment and subsequent defeat of Nice and Lisbon had the effect of reducing the ambitions of the EU to progress, because policymakers had to formulate changes that were within the existing treaties.
So SM .. just interested .. You would be for "More Europe" / Federalism so? Apologies if I got that wrong ..
 

Fractional Reserve

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In fairness this is happening the world over and has more to do with globalisation than anything else...

The solutions to the 1%'ers and the obscene amount of wealth they control need to be global.
you could take all the 1% wealth and give it to government and it wouldnt last them a day with all the debt they have piled
 

Sister Mercedes

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So SM .. just interested .. You would be for "More Europe" / Federalism so? Apologies if I got that wrong ..
Either one or the other would be better than the neither that we've currently got. I think the EU will go two ways, an inner core integrating, the rest going back to what the EEC was in the 1970s.
 

robut

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Either one or the other would be better than the neither that we've currently got. I think the EU will go two ways, an inner core integrating, the rest going back to what the EEC was in the 1970s.
And if I said you had to pick one or the other which would you gravitate toward?? For Ireland that is ..

I would choose toward Economic EEC direction ..
 

Dame_Enda

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The boss of the IMF is about to go on trial and should resign until it's over.
 

The Field Marshal

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I wonder is all the above a prelude to SOMETHING Big coming from the EU/EZ ??
If angela merkele were to offer her resignation and apologize to the entire EU for her calamitous mistakes it might be the beginning of something new.
 

Spanner Island

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Either one or the other would be better than the neither that we've currently got. I think the EU will go two ways, an inner core integrating, the rest going back to what the EEC was in the 1970s.
The inner core will include members of the feckin' €uro which means we're f***ed... subsumed into it while being a small peripheral really unimportant and really uninfluential part of it...

If it does go that way however (which I'm opposed to), then Germany should pay us and others massive ongoing non refundable subsidies for the mayhem running a currency in the interests of Germany will cause us...
 

ScoobyDoo

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Why should Germany pay?

No one forced us into the Euro? We chose it and have to take the consequences.


The inner core will include members of the feckin' €uro which means we're f***ed... subsumed into it while being a small peripheral really unimportant and really uninfluential part of it...

If it does go that way however (which I'm opposed to), then Germany should pay us and others massive ongoing non refundable subsidies for the mayhem running a currency in the interests of Germany will cause us...
 

robut

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BTW .. is this where LISBON comes home to roost?

If their is a push toward federalism are we stuck with it, having no out other than #Irexit?
 

Sister Mercedes

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The inner core will include members of the feckin' €uro which means we're f***ed... subsumed into it while being a small peripheral really unimportant and really uninfluential part of it...

If it does go that way however (which I'm opposed to), then Germany should pay us and others massive ongoing non refundable subsidies for the mayhem running a currency in the interests of Germany will cause us...
I reckon there's very little chance we'd even be invited to join the inner core. With the UK leaving the whole thing, the rest of the EU consider us to be a rogue province of the UK. Plus our 26% official GDP growth has sent out the message that our fur coat and no knickers economy is BACK and no-one else wants to have to pick up the pieces when we crash back to earth.
 

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