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'The EU should scrap some national vetos on tax' - Jean-Claude Juncker in his State of the Union Address to EU Parliament - huge Danger to Ireland her


Catalpast

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'The EU should scrap some national vetos on tax' - Jean-Claude Juncker in his State of the Union Address to EU Parliament - huge Danger to Ireland her

'The EU should scrap some national vetos on tax' - Jean-Claude Juncker in his State of the Union Address to EU Parliament - huge Danger to Ireland here

Yes folks the assault continues - this mans arrogance knows no bounds....

Be sure that after the UK gets out the pressure will increase manifold for us to comply with what is being planned

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker launched another assault on Irish powers to veto tax matters at European level.

The European Union should scrap some national vetos on tax, he said at his annual State of the Union address to the European Parliament in Strasbourg.
Instead, he suggested that the EU should move to a system of majority voting - comments which would cause concern among the Government here.
Mr Juncker has long been pushing for EU-wide tax reforms to be implemented via qualified majority voting rather than unanimous agreement.

Juncker in fresh attack on Irish tax autonomy - Independent.ie
Juncker in fresh attack on Irish tax autonomy - Independent.ie

One wonders whether Varadkar will issue a Statement refuting this

- or will he as I expect bury his head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening...?
 

Catalpast

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You may hate them as I do but this is deadly serious stuff

He might be a drunken buffoon but he is only reflecting the mindset of the Central Powers


- they want centralised Economic control over financial transactions within the Union

- it is not possible within a Union that one tiny State can play 'The Mouse that Roared'

- and not expect Retribution ...
 

Niall996

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'The EU should scrap some national vetos on tax' - Jean-Claude Juncker in his State of the Union Address to EU Parliament - huge Danger to Ireland here

Yes folks the assault continues - this mans arrogance knows no bounds....

Be sure that after the UK gets out the pressure will increase manifold for us to comply with what is being planned

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker launched another assault on Irish powers to veto tax matters at European level.

The European Union should scrap some national vetos on tax, he said at his annual State of the Union address to the European Parliament in Strasbourg.
Instead, he suggested that the EU should move to a system of majority voting - comments which would cause concern among the Government here.
Mr Juncker has long been pushing for EU-wide tax reforms to be implemented via qualified majority voting rather than unanimous agreement.

Juncker in fresh attack on Irish tax autonomy - Independent.ie
Juncker in fresh attack on Irish tax autonomy - Independent.ie

One wonders whether Varadkar will issue a Statement refuting this

- or will he as I expect bury his head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening...?
He has a view. He's entitled to express it. It's called open debate and discussion about the future of the EU. Of which we need more. If you don't agree fine. No need to be abusive towards him. Many also share his view that Ireland is used as a tax haven. Nothing new at all. The point is, if a country has a veto, does it have the right to impose whatever it feels like regardless of the impact on other parts of Europe. It's a fair question. And Ireland has hundrreds of many fair questions it can throw back at the rest fo the EU.
 

Strawberry

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He can talk about what he wants, it is not for him to make decisions without the consent of the leaders of the member states and besides, he'll be retiring next year and I can't wait to see him go for good. He has been blocking reformation of the EU for long enough and I hope that whoever will succeed him, will have a better grasp of what the EU Needs to reform herself in order to gain more acceptance among the people and thus pushing back the rising far-right across the EU.
His successor will probably be Michel Barnier.
 

Catalpast

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He has a view. He's entitled to express it. It's called open debate and discussion about the future of the EU. Of which we need more. If you don't agree fine. No need to be abusive towards him. Many also share his view that Ireland is used as a tax haven. Nothing new at all. The point is, if a country has a veto, does it have the right to impose whatever it feels like regardless of the impact on other parts of Europe. It's a fair question. And Ireland has hundrreds of many fair questions it can throw back at the rest fo the EU.
I am not objecting to him putting forward a POV

- I am objecting to his political program

We are a small State on the edge [not the heart!] of Europe

With the UK getting out we will be very isolated as this gathers momentum

The game plan will be to centralise tax gathering powers under the EU Commission

If we surrender our veto then we will find it very hard to attract inward investment into Ireland

- without offering any tax incentives

This really is Life or Death stuff...
 

Catalpast

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He can talk about what he wants, it is not for him to make decisions without the consent of the leaders of the member states and besides, he'll be retiring next year and I can't wait to see him go for good. He has been blocking reformation of the EU for long enough and I hope that whoever will succeed him, will have a better grasp of what the EU Needs to reform herself in order to gain more acceptance among the people and thus pushing back the rising far-right across the EU.
Good to hear he is on the way out

But here he is just voicing the mindset of the Central Powers

He is not on a solo run here

- but reflecting what Germany and France want to happen...
 

hollandia

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Has anyone actually thought about this beyond "this man is a drunken fool and a nazi?"

No, they haven't.

I'm unsure why having some degree of tax harmonisation would be viewed as a bad thing. Having lived in the continent, I've seen first hand the benefits of proper taxation in terms of the proper funding and provision of public services and infrastructure that benefits entire populations, whereas we have a taxation system that appears to work against the ordinary person.

But, sure, euronazis or something...

It's not the views that are problematic, it's the lack of outside knowledge and lack of (in fairness, sometimes just lazy) analysis.
 

Catalpast

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It remindes me on what Macron was talking about. But Germany is more reluctant to follow his proposals and that for various reasons. The zero interest policy by the ECB, which is going on for years now and will continue so for at least the next couple of yeas to come, cos Mr Draghi has (imo) more the interests of Italy and her economical problems at heart than the loss of savers money across the EU. I have the strong opinion by that example that some EU officials are still thinking more national than european which is also a problem for reforming the EU cos for that, a much wider european thinking and acting has to develop and to prevail. That includes that regional or national differences and problems have to be addressed and recognised. Such like those you have mentioned for the Republic of Ireland who certainly will have to experience the disadvantages this Brexit folly will bring to her.
Brexit is not a Folly - it is Britain acting in her own best interests

We need to get out too

However what Europe really needs is a new template on which to operate

- the European Union is not it

There are just too many differences - economic political and cultural - within Europe

- for a centralised Union to be the solution.
 

Catalpast

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Has anyone actually thought about this beyond "this man is a drunken fool and a nazi?"

No, they haven't.

I'm unsure why having some degree of tax harmonisation would be viewed as a bad thing. Having lived in the continent, I've seen first hand the benefits of proper taxation in terms of the proper funding and provision of public services and infrastructure that benefits entire populations, whereas we have a taxation system that appears to work against the ordinary person.

But, sure, euronazis or something...

It's not the views that are problematic, it's the lack of outside knowledge and lack of (in fairness, sometimes just lazy) analysis.
That is a Red Herring - its how are taxes get spent in providing social services rather than the amount raised is the problem

The problem here is that if we allow the European Commission to decide on the EU Tax Regime then the biggest card we have in our deck to attract FDI is gone

- its like being in a High Stakes poker game and being told to ditch your Ace of Spades

- when the rest of the pack are Knaves....:cool:
 

firefly123

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I am not objecting to him putting forward a POV

- I am objecting to his political program

We are a small State on the edge [not the heart!] of Europe

With the UK getting out we will be very isolated as this gathers momentum

The game plan will be to centralise tax gathering powers under the EU Commission

If we surrender our veto then we will find it very hard to attract inward investment into Ireland

- without offering any tax incentives

This really is Life or Death stuff...
but to be clear you think we would be better off out of the EU in order to attract all that FDI ?
 

Catalpast

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The matter is more complicated in practice than many might imagine. The Federal Republic of Germany as a Taxation System which contains tax compensation between the rich and the poor federal states. The German word (or term) for this is 'Länderfinanzausgleich'. This is working since the foundation of the State in 1949 and in short it means that those federal states who are economically more successful and thus gain more taxes have to pay a higher amount into the federal tax hub in order that the economically weak ones get compensation from there to sustain their financial frame to keep their state running. It really is a very complicated matter and has led to debates on and off for years.

Taxes are split in this system, some taxes are directly to the federal government, others are to the federal states who split the income to give a part of it to the communities.

In economical bad times, Ireland and other EU member states who are economically struggeling would benefit from such a system, but when it comes to a reverse situation, Ireland would had to pay more then. This is how that system works. I think that the idea of a tax harmonisation might go into the direction of such a system as Germany has. I don't think that the idea will prevail in the next future.
Ireland is already paying more into the EU budget than it is taking out

As for Germany you must admit there are richer States and poorer States

- the poorer States are beggars to the Federal Government to get funds

- and the richer States have a lot more power at the table


If Ireland were to be just like a minor German State we would just be a little actor in a Beggars Opera!
 

hollandia

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That is a Red Herring - its how are taxes get spent in providing social services rather than the amount raised is the problem

The problem here is that if we allow the European Commission to decide on the EU Tax Regime then the biggest card we have in our deck to attract FDI is gone

- its like being in a High Stakes poker game and being told to ditch your Ace of Spades

- when the rest of the pack are Knaves....:cool:
So... tax harmonisation is a red herring? Fúck me pink. That's the best I've heard this week.

It's nothing like a poker game, it's more like the rest of your mates in your gang saying, "OK enough already, you've had your fun and its time to grow up".

FDI isn't attracted on tax alone - especially - as we've seen with apple - they tend not to pay the full whack as it is - but on the level of availability of an educated workforce and the ability to speak English. Búllsh1t of the highest order to suggest FDI is simply a case of Tax. It's also symptomatic of your incredibly lazy analysis of pretty much every subject you post on :)
 

hollandia

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Ireland is already paying more into the EU budget than it is taking out

As for Germany you must admit there are richer States and poorer States

- the poorer States are beggars to the Federal Government to get funds

- and the richer States have a lot more power at the table


If Ireland were to be just like a minor German State we would just be a little actor in a Beggars Opera!
And? How much has Ireland taken out over it's forty plus year membership versus how much it has put in. Let's see the figures. Or we can all go back to pre European Ireland, because that was just fabulous...

Idiot.

As of 2004 (I'll get more up to date figures later, but we only became a net contributor in 2016) Ireland had received €36bn more than it put in.

Irelands 40-year bonanza of foreign aid from the European Union will amount to €41 billion by the time we become a net contributor in 2013
 

Catalpast

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but to be clear you think we would be better off out of the EU in order to attract all that FDI ?
We would be better off as an Independent State

- not a Vassal of the European State

What we need is a new template on which the European States can co operate with each other

There seems to be a fallacy that the States of Europe did not Trade with each other before the EU came into operation

- when in fact Trade between European States has always existed ….

There is no reason why it cannot continue into the Future

- without us having to surrender our tax making powers to Brussels...
 

Catalpast

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So... tax harmonisation is a red herring? Fúck me pink. That's the best I've heard this week.

It's nothing like a poker game, it's more like the rest of your mates in your gang saying, "OK enough already, you've had your fun and its time to grow up".

FDI isn't attracted on tax alone - especially - as we've seen with apple - they tend not to pay the full whack as it is - but on the level of availability of an educated workforce and the ability to speak English. Búllsh1t of the highest order to suggest FDI is simply a case of Tax. It's also symptomatic of your incredibly lazy analysis of pretty much every subject you post on :)
You should read what I wrote again

What I said was that the state of our social services is a red herring

True FDI isn't entirely dependent on the tax regime - but it is far and away the biggest factor

They do actually speak English as a 2nd language in many other EU countries too

- esp amongst the educated workforce
 

Sync

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Has anyone actually thought about this beyond "this man is a drunken fool and a nazi?"

No, they haven't.
This is long term EU planning, I'm not clear on what's revolutionary about him voicing it.

I'm unsure why having some degree of tax harmonisation would be viewed as a bad thing. Having lived in the continent, I've seen first hand the benefits of proper taxation in terms of the proper funding and provision of public services and infrastructure that benefits entire populations, whereas we have a taxation system that appears to work against the ordinary person.
That's a different argument though. We could do more with our taxes. That's a reason to get better people in office to use those taxes. Harmonisation removes our ability to differentiate ourselves in the market. Our corp tax is why we have a large number of multinationals. Remove that pull factor and we run the risk of losing them. Also in practical terms it would be a nightmare to implement.

But, sure, euronazis or something...

It's not the views that are problematic, it's the lack of outside knowledge and lack of (in fairness, sometimes just lazy) analysis.
OPer doesn't do nuance.
 

Catalpast

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It isn't quite the way you see it. As I said, it is more complicated and therefore a bit hard to explain being no expert of that matter. The regulation is set in the federal constitution, the details in the taxation laws. It is new to me that Ireland pays more into the EU than it gets from her. Maybe you can provide some details to it. The UK is still regarded as a Netto contributor, like Germany, with France being on that level too. But if you're right, I just like to remind you on the solidarity principle according to which Ireland received much money in the past and would had to contribute more when the tide turned.

But I know, this is some problem when countries once got more money when in need and have to contribute more when they are better off. It works both ways or it doesn't work at all in the long run.
Ireland did not receive Billions of money from Europe

- in return for nothing

Nobody does that

We got that money so that we will be under the thumb of the Central Powers ad infinitum

re Ireland now being a net contributor to the EU budget see here:

Ireland’s contribution to EU budget expected to rise to €2.7bn this year


Ireland’s contribution to the EU budget is expected to rise to €2.7 billion this year, the Department of Finance has confirmed. This is 35 per cent higher than the €2 billion paid in 2017 and more than double what the State paid five years ago.


In 2016, Ireland became a net contributor to the EU Budget for the first time since it joined the bloc in 1973 with the State paying in more than it received in grants and payments. The majority of Irish receipts, approximately two thirds, come in the form of direct payments to farmers.
Ireland’s contribution to EU budget expected to rise to €2.7bn this year
 

Catalpast

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This is long term EU planning, I'm not clear on what's revolutionary about him voicing it.



That's a different argument though. We could do more with our taxes. That's a reason to get better people in office to use those taxes. Harmonisation removes our ability to differentiate ourselves in the market. Our corp tax is why we have a large number of multinationals. Remove that pull factor and we run the risk of losing them. Also in practical terms it would be a nightmare to implement.



OPer doesn't do nuance.
I don't know whether your agreeing with me or disagreeing with me!

But I think you see the nub of the issue.

'Nuance' is not really suitable on a political website

The knack is to separate the wheat from the chaff...
 
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