The fascination with Adolf Hitler.

redneck

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Over 60 years after his death, Hitler still exerts a macabre influence over the world. Recent films about Hitler era include "Inglourius Basterds", The boy in the striped pyjamas, and "Valkyrie". Without doubt he was a monster, but could he have been saved? What led to his hatred and fanaticsm. We know he was gassed in ww1, and that he was jailed by the German authorities after the Munich putcsh. Did these events make him the arch war criminal? How much was the final solution his personal doing. I would guess most of it. There is no doubt though that he wanted some kind of agreement with the British empire/America.He refused to invade Britain. Had he secret communist leanings- I would say he had, but kept quiet about them. I would also guess that had he been stopped in 1936, there would have been a civil war in Germany, with maybe the Communists winning out. Finally there is no doubt in my mind also he was borderline criminally insane- you would see his type in the maximum security wing of any prison, or on death row in the US. A manic depressive maybe.
 


jcdf

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Finally there is no doubt in my mind also he was borderline criminally insane- you would see his type in the maximum security wing of any prison, or on death row in the US. A manic depressive maybe.
No, his type is rarely found in prisons. To be put in prison you either have to kill someone yourself or be thought to be capable of killing people during a trial. Hitler falls into neither category.
 

brughahaha

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Evil people always attract a fascination as we try to understand what we basically cant understand...... Hyndley, Brady, Krays ....... just look at the selection of soft porn crime mags in any newsagent or how tabloids use lurid headlines to make sales......... evil fascinates and sells

Heres one for the pub.... ask people to name 10 evil people.... there'll be some discussion and some agreement but lots of suggestions ....... then ask your friends to name 10 intrinsically good people........ great fun
 

greenporcupine

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The whole point of Hitler is that he represented something in All human beings,and I get annoyed when someone is painted as good we identify with them ,but when painted bad [by after events]
they are over there and have Nothing to do with us. He was a popular figure at the time ,not only in Germany,but elsewhere ,and what he represents is the need for power and control over others ,and a need for perfection which went too far .The idea that he is worse than most or so different from us goodies is a false reality,or that we would all be living in 'paradise' on earth if he had not existed is nonsense too.HE simply was the Aggregate of the whole Western condition,like a boil is the point of poison in a poisoned body .If we were all perfect ,He would not have happened,but the media ,the
diversionists [from their own condition ]need an escape,an excuse not to face their own personal hitler . Hence his fascination.
 

rhonda15

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What I find so bizarre and unnerving about Hitler is apparently he loved animals particularly his German Shepherd dog "Blondi", was a vegetarian teetotaler and could be very warm and charming personally with scores (obviously) of devoted followers.

I recently watched the movie "Der Untergang/Downfall" - very impressed with it - chronicles the fall of Berlin and Hitler's last days - based on his final secretary's testimony who was with him till the last (but survived obviously)

Der Untergang (2004)

History is not always so cut and clear ... I doubt we'll ever really know what motivated that man to do such evil.
 

Twin Towers

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Heres one for the pub.... ask people to name 10 evil people.... there'll be some discussion and some agreement but lots of suggestions ....... then ask your friends to name 10 intrinsically good people........ great fun
Good idea for a thread though I don't imagine most people would have any difficulty with that task and there would be much convergence.
 

Tommy Tayto

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Good idea for a thread though I don't imagine most people would have any difficulty with that task and there would be much convergence.
Nah, the great 'wags' of p.ie would just name ten FF ministers. Hilarious.
 
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brughahaha

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Good idea for a thread though I don't imagine most people would have any difficulty with that task and there would be much convergence.
oh you'd be amazed at the ability to disagree, one was Irish and thought JP2 was evil for his stance on contraception and its effects in Africa........she spoke forgetting one of the others at the table was polish :D very very entertaining!!!!
 

Sean O'Brian

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The idea that he is worse than most or so different from us goodies is a false reality
We may all have the potential to be as bad as Hitler but that does not mean that we are all, in practice, objectively no different from him. We can choose to reject evil, rather than immersing ourelves in it.
 

stripey cat

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What I find so bizarre are unnerving about Hitler is apparently he loved animals particularly his German Shepherd dog "Blondi", was a vegetarian teetotaler
He was not a vegetarian. His favourite meal was apparently something called stuffed squab, which is, I'm told, a particularly messy thing to eat, leaving a lot of bones on the plate. It's a myth that he was a vegetarian, although digestive problems meant he had to watch what he ate.

He loved his dog so much he poisoned it with cyanide.

He also drank, though not much. More of a sherry man than a whiskey or beer drinker.
 

Trampas

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How much was the final solution his personal doing. I would guess most of it.

I'm not so sure. Himmler (who was completely insane and not a well man ) was obsessed with Aryan superiority, even though he looked nothing like an Aryan himself. He also commanded the SS who ran the camps. Heydrich, who chaired the infamous Wannsee conference, also reported to Himmler. I'm not suggesting that Himmler was on a solo run but he certainly displayed an excess of zeal for the extermination project at a time when Hitler was pre-occupied with the conduct of the war.
 
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He was not a vegetarian. His favourite meal was apparently something called stuffed squab, which is, I'm told, a particularly messy thing to eat, leaving a lot of bones on the plate. It's a myth that he was a vegetarian, although digestive problems meant he had to watch what he ate.

He loved his dog so much he poisoned it with cyanide.

He also drank, though not much. More of a sherry man than a whiskey or beer drinker.
Indeed, although in later years he lessened his intake of meat & felt vegetarianism was much healthier for the human. I think I read once that in his last days in the bunker, his diet consisted of eating copius amounts of cake.

He did love his dog Blondi, but that was based on Hitlers need to be in control. Blondi like his many followers was totally dutiful & obedient & thats what Hitler thrived on. There are similiar stories from his time when serving in the army in WW1, when he befriended a dog named Foxl who had wandered over from enemy linres. Hitler reveled in the dogs obedience & losing Foxl seemed to have affected him more than the macarbre sights of the war.

It's actually quite a twisted irony that the Nazi Germay was a leading light when it came to Animal rights.
Animal welfare in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think the interest in Hitlers alleged vegetarianism, drinking habits, disdain for sex. comes from the shock that a man with that much power lived quite a frugal life. When we think of other men in power, Henry VIII, Kennedy, Churchill etc.... They all enjoyed the finer things in life such as drink, food & women.
 

sauntersplash

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The thing which I find most interesting is how everybody conveniently forgets that the best part of 80,000,000 people in Germany who shared his views. He is credited with being SO charasmatic that the people of Germany are never thought of as playing any part. It is as though the entire nation was hypnotised by this one man and wandered around committing atrocities for six years whilst fast asleep.

This is a valuable insight into our blindness towards the "banal" everyday evil which inhabits us all. We imagine Hitler to be a "genius" beyond compare simply to avoid the facing up to the fact that there is a staggering amount of cruelty, bitterness, and rage bubbling just beneath the surface of your average Joe on the street.

Hitler is the perfect scapegoat for a society which can't bear to look at itself. A little bit ironic when you think about it. But what isn't?
 

TheTipperaryMan

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Hitler was as shallow as a puddle.

He really was no more complex than the familiar cartoon Hitler with a floppy haircut and little square moustache with his camp salute, rants about the Jews and throwing tantrums when defeat stared him in the face.

His entire personality is wound up with the rise of his Nazi Party, the coming of the Third Reich and Germany's fortunes in the Second World War.

Hitler's political career began by sheer accident.

After the defeat in the Great War, Hitler was bone idle until his incoherent ranting got the attention of German Army intelligence officers who gave the tiresome corporal the task of snooping on right wing groups.A boring lecture ill attended lecture in a Munich beer hall by a dull now long forgotten university professor advocating the nutty idea of Bavarian independence caused the corporal to spring to his feet in rage forcing the timid academic to flee the room.

Had this chance incident never occured, Hitler would probably have remained an obscure layabout for the rest of his life.

In an alternate history of the mid 20th century without Hitler as dictator, Germany would probably still have been ruled by some form of right wing dictatorship.

Whether there would have been a second world war without Hitler seems less likely.

Hitler's curious sex life, his juvenile fascination with Wagner, his love of pastry, his affection for children and dogs etc etc are hardly worth any interest to a serious student of history.

They are rather like the lurid obsessions with Ted Bundy and other serial killers.
 

Quinn Quinn

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some FGs may look with pride on their roots.....they served with the infamous Nazi Foreign Condor Legion during the Spanish Civil War....many, many civilians were murdered. Fine Gael still wont apologise for this disgraceful role in their history....its likely some in the party have this facination with Herr Hitler...
 

Spacewagon

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There is also a need to constantly demonise Hitler, lest we look more closely at the war crimes committed by the Allies during World War 2, or at other times in history.

While not making any case for the defence of Hitler, it is instructive to note that when "concentration camps" are ever mentioned in conversation, 99% of people automatically think of Nazi Germany, rather than the camps set up by the British during the Boer War, or even the attempted liquidation of the Native Americans in the 19th century

When we talk of a "Holocaust" or widespread genocide, we immediately think of Hitlers attempts to wipe out the Jewish people, but never think of what the British did for example to the Mau Mau in Kenya.

And, was there any greater single war crime in WW2, than the dropping of not one, but two atomic bombs on innocent civilians in Japan ?

A way of looking at the Hitler fascination, is that it is kept in the limelight, so that other actions can be kept in the dark
 

apoch632

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And, was there any greater single war crime in WW2, than the dropping of not one, but two atomic bombs on innocent civilians in Japan ?
I'd probably say the bombing of Dresden. As bad as the dropping of the atomic bombs was at least it was instant if you get me
 

Cato

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The endless fascination with Hitler, the Nazis, and the Second World War, has become a little tiresome. Watching the history and documentary channels one would be excused for thinking that history consisted of WWII, the Romans, and the Tudors. Bugger all else gets a look in. Same as the book shops. Shelves bulging with books on Hitler and WWII and little else.

History has a lot more to offer, in terms of lessons to be learnt, interesting stories and curious people.
 

TheTipperaryMan

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I'd probably say the bombing of Dresden. As bad as the dropping of the atomic bombs was at least it was instant if you get me
The bombings of Dresden and Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the bombings of German and Japanese cities pale in comparison with the unique evil of the mass murder of the 6 million Jews and the butchery of tens of millions of innocent civilians at the hands of the Nazis.

The indiscriminate bombings of German and Japanese cities which destroyed both civilian infrastructure and war industries, killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and soldiers but served to break the spirit of the German and Japanese people to continue the war.

Without the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is likely a full scale invasion of Japan would have been necessary to end the war, a climax that would certainly have cost millions of lives and prolonged the war into 1946.

The barbarity of the Boer concentration camps and the post-colonial struggles which led to brutal atrocities like the crimes committed by British forces in Kenya in the 1950's, does not in any way tarnish the victory of the free world over Nazi tyranny.

The crimes of the Western allies were very few compared to the official policy of mass murder in Nazi occupied Europe.
 

Spacewagon

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The bombings of Dresden and Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the bombings of German and Japanese cities pale in comparison with the unique evil of the mass murder of the 6 million Jews and the butchery of tens of millions of innocent civilians at the hands of the Nazis.

The indiscriminate bombings of German and Japanese cities which destroyed both civilian infrastructure and war industries, killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and soldiers but served to break the spirit of the German and Japanese people to continue the war.

Without the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is likely a full scale invasion of Japan would have been necessary to end the war, a climax that would certainly have cost millions of lives and prolonged the war into 1946.

The barbarity of the Boer concentration camps and the post-colonial struggles which led to brutal atrocities like the crimes committed by British forces in Kenya in the 1950's, does not in any way tarnish the victory of the free world over Nazi tyranny.

The crimes of the Western allies were very few compared to the official policy of mass murder in Nazi occupied Europe.
Pretty typical Anglo-centric view of history.. and completely predictable from you I have to admit. Are black African lives not as important as White Europeans ?
 


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