The Fermi Paradox - Are we alone?

Lumpy Talbot

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No
In fact we can all get in touch with Ramanujan's goddess by signing up for the Ramanujan Machine...



 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
Who is to say that the perception of the universe we have is that it is uninhabited by any species other than ourselves? We can only say that if we have checked the entire Universe, and if we accept that any other species that does exist only has the same perceptive skills limited to our understanding of perception.

It is entirely possible that homo sapiens or the next stage may transcend physicality altogether.

After all, we are currently try to figure out ways to prolong life medically and there are also research centres examining things like sleep and death and whether they can be dispensed with.

Probably the best way to do that is to float free of the limitations of the physical human body altogether.

We could be surrounded by fifty four other species who have achieved this state but emit no noise, light, energy and just observe, free of our limited lifespan.

If I were them I'd wait too until we had achieved the necessary psychology to transcend the physical.
 

galteeman

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Who is to say that the perception of the universe we have is that it is uninhabited by any species other than ourselves? We can only say that if we have checked the entire Universe, and if we accept that any other species that does exist only has the same perceptive skills limited to our understanding of perception.

It is entirely possible that homo sapiens or the next stage may transcend physicality altogether.

After all, we are currently try to figure out ways to prolong life medically and there are also research centres examining things like sleep and death and whether they can be dispensed with.

Probably the best way to do that is to float free of the limitations of the physical human body altogether.

We could be surrounded by fifty four other species who have achieved this state but emit no noise, light, energy and just observe, free of our limited lifespan.

If I were them I'd wait too until we had achieved the necessary psychology to transcend the physical.
In the Ian Banks Culture books whole groups of billions of really advanced guys who were around for eons of years got bored of existing and simply disappeared somewhere, he called it 'subliming'.
Other individuals were bored of existing for ever had themselves put in storage with instructions for them to be re-awakened every few thousand years etc. and then they would decide if it was worth coming back into existence based on current events etc. or going back to sleep.
I was reading the Silmarilion recently and Tolkien addressed this whole area with the Elven folk who live forever. Seemingly everyone gets bored out of their mind after a few thousand years and life becomes unbearably dull but the rings of power keep all the people around them interested because they put a magical sheen on all life. However when Suarons ring is destroyed the power of the other rings fades and this forces the last of the Elves in middle earth to head for the lands of bliss across the sea because they are becoming so bored etc.
Never mind a few thousand years, I was sitting in bed yesterday trying to find something interesting to occupy myself and couldn't actually find anything. I reckoned that I am already bored of existing and I haven't even been around for 50 years ffs.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Yes, thanks for the note re Iain Banks and his 'subliming' from the Culture series. Probably the best speculative fiction I've ever read.

There is a chap who I think is a mathematician/physicist from his twitterfeed backposts, an Australian called 'Greg Egan'. He writes magnificent science fiction, and I dare say matches Iain Banks for informed imagination.

Egan also explores the idea of the effects of extreme longevity in humans over the 'long now', periods matched in thousands of years rather than the customary 'It is 2344ad...' stuff.

Egan also has homo sapien or the next most successful branch of the family find ways to choose whether to incorporate as a download into a fresh presence or just sleep for the next few milennia and have an alarm set to wake up to see whether things have become interesting yet.

The idea of separating the functional vehicle the human is from the intellect altogether is an interesting one and the subject of gothic horror from religious trauma literature to Frankenstein and of course the debate now about robot and AI and so on.

But suppose it had benevolent effects in that your persona and intellect could be stored for rejuvenation either in the customary dimensions or as blend of AI just for kicks.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Who is to say that the perception of the universe we have is that it is uninhabited by any species other than ourselves? We can only say that if we have checked the entire Universe, and if we accept that any other species that does exist only has the same perceptive skills limited to our understanding of perception.

It is entirely possible that homo sapiens or the next stage may transcend physicality altogether.

After all, we are currently try to figure out ways to prolong life medically and there are also research centres examining things like sleep and death and whether they can be dispensed with.

Probably the best way to do that is to float free of the limitations of the physical human body altogether.

We could be surrounded by fifty four other species who have achieved this state but emit no noise, light, energy and just observe, free of our limited lifespan.

If I were them I'd wait too until we had achieved the necessary psychology to transcend the physical.
What environmental change would serve as the impetus for us to evolve in that way?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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What environmental change would serve as the impetus for us to evolve in that way?
Doubt it would have to be environmental. For example there is absolutely no logic in us as a species researching ways to double, triple our lifespan considering it won't be long before it is 'standing-room-only' on this planet.

But there are billions of dollars going into anti ageing medical research and cryogenic schemes and what-have-you.

Way things are I'm not at all convinced that 100 years time will be a time of wine and roses for humanity.
 

galteeman

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Yes, thanks for the note re Iain Banks and his 'subliming' from the Culture series. Probably the best speculative fiction I've ever read.

There is a chap who I think is a mathematician/physicist from his twitterfeed backposts, an Australian called 'Greg Egan'. He writes magnificent science fiction, and I dare say matches Iain Banks for informed imagination.

Egan also explores the idea of the effects of extreme longevity in humans over the 'long now', periods matched in thousands of years rather than the customary 'It is 2344ad...' stuff.

Egan also has homo sapien or the next most successful branch of the family find ways to choose whether to incorporate as a download into a fresh presence or just sleep for the next few milennia and have an alarm set to wake up to see whether things have become interesting yet.

The idea of separating the functional vehicle the human is from the intellect altogether is an interesting one and the subject of gothic horror from religious trauma literature to Frankenstein and of course the debate now about robot and AI and so on.

But suppose it had benevolent effects in that your persona and intellect could be stored for rejuvenation either in the customary dimensions or as blend of AI just for kicks.
If they separate the body from the mind then my mother will be at a loss as a large part of her personality these days involves worrying and whinging about her various physical ailments.
My daughters spend half the time dolling themselves up and looking at themselves in the mirror so they are going to be bored out of their minds when they have no bodies.
 

galteeman

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thanks for the tip re Egan btw.
 

Ardillaun

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Swift considered the miseries of immortality without eternal youth:


And, of course, it’s in Greek mythology too:


Some of us are getting a little taste of that in the extreme old age that society has made possible.

The evidence so far suggests that life only appeared once on this planet so it may be a highly unlikely event on planets like ours. Intelligent life is presumably far more unlikely again. We indeed may be alone.
 

Baron von Biffo

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Doubt it would have to be environmental. For example there is absolutely no logic in us as a species researching ways to double, triple our lifespan considering it won't be long before it is 'standing-room-only' on this planet.

But there are billions of dollars going into anti ageing medical research and cryogenic schemes and what-have-you.

Way things are I'm not at all convinced that 100 years time will be a time of wine and roses for humanity.
Well evolution is quite thrifty. No environmental change no evolution. There may be artificial mechanisms to keep us around for longer but nothing to suggest any fundamental changes to the basic Homo sapiens model.
 

galteeman

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Well evolution is quite thrifty. No environmental change no evolution. There may be artificial mechanisms to keep us around for longer but nothing to suggest any fundamental changes to the basic Homo sapiens model.
we have arrived at the point where evolution is irrelevant and we have transcended evolution.
The point is that the physical body may be dispensed with. Surely the tech will arrive that allows the 'mind state' to leave and upload/migrate into some other structure which will free it from impending physical death, pain etc.
Alternatively, for those who prefer to remain in their own bodies, technology will arrive that will switch off aging genes etc. allowing them to stay young forever.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Well gene-silencing is already a technique being tried out with certain diseases, and may hold the key to defeating cancer, ultimately.

I know it is a major dream within the medical community in terms of medical advances. At the moment the technique seems to be working in connection with some diseases.
 


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