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The GAA and "The Ban" [Rule 27]


diy01

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GAA History

In 1902 Rule 27 was passed. It read "any member of the association who plays or encourages in any way rugby, football, hockey or any imported game which is calculated or injuriously affect our national pastimes, is suspended from the association." It was deleted in 1971.
Does anyone know what the total vote in favour of deleting the Rule was? And how many voted against?

Douglas Hyde was kicked out of the GAA in 1938 for attending an international soccer match. Waterford hurler Tom Cheasty received a six month ban in 1963 for attending a dance organised by a soccer club. Are there other examples?
 
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The_SR

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Supposedly Douglas Hyde was kicked out of the GAA in 1938 for attending an international soccer match. Waterford hurler Tom Cheasty received a six month ban in 1963 for attending a dance organised by a soccer club. Are there other examples?
Nothing supposed about the Douglas Hyde story. As President of the Republic he was granted honorary membership of the GAA. He was invited to Dalymount as a guest of the FAI, went, and was found to be in breach of the rule and expelled from the organisation.

Liam Brady was expelled from a Christian Brothers school for representing Ireland in an underage football game.
 

diy01

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Amazed that the rule remained until 1971!

The vote on Rule 42 was 227 in favour. 97 against. As with Rule 21, most of the Ulster counties voted against.

I'm trying to find out how many voted for and against the removal of Rule 27.
 

The_SR

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Amazed that the rule remained until 1971!

The vote on Rule 42 was 227 in favour. 97 against. As with Rule 21, most of the Ulster counties voted against.

I'm trying to find out how many voted for and against the removal of Rule 27.
I have no idea, the GAA don't archive annual reports online from those days.

queries@gaa.ie
 

Glennshane

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I am not sure that there was a formal division on the motion to remove the ban. I know that Antrim and Mayo wanted the rule retained but I think that the then President, Pat Fanning, arranged for a formal proposal and secondment and the motion was carried without a debate.
 

Glennshane

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Amazed that the rule remained until 1971!

The vote on Rule 42 was 227 in favour. 97 against. As with Rule 21, most of the Ulster counties voted against.
Only Down, of the counties of Northern Ireland, mandated their representatives at Congress to vote to delete rule 21. All of the counties of Northern Ireland mandated their delegates to vote against the relaxation of rule 42. As for rule 27, only Antrim, of the counties of Northern Ireland, mandated their delegates to vote to retain Rule 27.
 
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FrCrilly

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Just a nugget of info I have relevant to this thread.

In 1912 there was a dispute within the London GAA over the removal of rule 27. Michael Collins, a member at the time, was in favour of retaining it.

(I recall reading this in Michael Collins, A Biography by Tim Pat Coogan many years ago so may not have the exact details. But I do remember being very disappointed to learn that Michael Collins was a GAA Fascist.)
 

Polaris555

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GAA History



Does anyone know what the total vote in favour of deleting the Rule was? And how many voted against?

Douglas Hyde was kicked out of the GAA in 1938 for attending an international soccer match. Waterford hurler Tom Cheasty received a six month ban in 1963 for attending a dance organised by a soccer club. Are there other examples?


What about if someone rode a bicycle or ran or went ice skating or played ping-pong? Where does the madness end ?
 

FrCrilly

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Liam Brady was expelled from a Christian Brothers school for representing Ireland in an underage football game.
Eamon Dunphy, co-panelist to Liam Brady, has confirmed this.

His exact quote, "Liam Brady was expelled 6 weeks before his inter cert because he wouldn't play a friendly Gaelic match for the Christian Brothers and chose to play for Ireland's international soccer team, out the door 6 weeks before his inter cert and that was in the mid 1970s".

(I believe Dunphy has mentioned this in his book "The Rocky Road").

Dunphy also made references to Dublin GAA players wearing scarves over their faces when attending Tolka park due to the possibility of being spotted and banned for life from the GAA for attending a soccer match.

(Source: Interview on RTE1's "Today" show on date of this post).
 

Goa Tse

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I heard once that the late Roscommon football legend and army chief of staff Dermot Earley used to cheekily play rugby under the name Dermot Late (geddit?:) ) to circumvent this ban.
 

dent

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Pat McDonnell, All Ireland winning hurler in the 70s for Cork, played Munster Schools Cup for PBC, was spotted and banned, but back in time for the Cork Minor Hurling team. The way he said it to me, it sounded as if it happened more than once !
 

JohnJoeFenton

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a gifted footballer in my area was kicked of the parish team for doing over 465 keepy uppys outside a pub one good friday morning.
 

ergo2

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The ban was applied unevenly.

In the sixties some who had played soccer or rugby also togged out for GAA matches in the Irish form of their name. If they were good players the blind eye was turned.

GAA "vigilantes" attended soccer matches to take the names of any of GAA members present.

More seriously some efforts in towns to develope common pitches for both soccer and GAA foundered,
 

KateWynne

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A very good book to get a more profound knowledge of Douglas Hyde and 'The Ban' is "The GAA v Douglas Hyde: The Removal of Ireland's First President as GAA Patron" by Cormac Moore.
 

McTell

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No
They wanted to ban everything except work, so you could pay your sub, and marriage so you could create the next gen of players.

I remember the one about a disco stopping in a Gah hall in the 1970s because disco music "wasn't Irish". It wasn't, but nor were jigs or country & western invented by us....
 

Hibee

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Eamon Dunphy, co-panelist to Liam Brady, has confirmed this.

His exact quote, "Liam Brady was expelled 6 weeks before his inter cert because he wouldn't play a friendly Gaelic match for the Christian Brothers and chose to play for Ireland's international soccer team, out the door 6 weeks before his inter cert and that was in the mid 1970s".

(I believe Dunphy has mentioned this in his book "The Rocky Road").

Dunphy also made references to Dublin GAA players wearing scarves over their faces when attending Tolka park due to the possibility of being spotted and banned for life from the GAA for attending a soccer match.

(Source: Interview on RTE1's "Today" show on date of this post).
The Liam Brady story was seventies news . The dogs on the street knew this TBH .
 

Brenny

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I'm looking for a bit of clarity on the Ban on "Foreign Games." All the online sources I came across state that this Ban came in in 1901 as Rule 27 but I've come across numerous sources stating that rugby players were banned before this. For example, the Limerick City Gaelic Football team St. Michael's were the best in the County in 1887 but were not allowed to represent Limerick in the All-Ireland championship because they used rugby players and so the team they beat, Limerick Commercials GAA, got the chance to represent the County and actually ended up winning the All-Ireland!

What was the rule that banned these players in 1887? Was Rule 27 just a rephrasing of an earlier rule?


As an aside, the best Limerick story regarding the Ban involves the 1930s hurler, Mick Mackey. Mackey was more than good, he was legendary and apparently had a way of soloing that nobody had ever seen and few could deal with. He was also a big soccer fan and would turn up in the Market's Field to watch soccer matches without any attempt to disguise himself. Ordinary Joe players can be banned, good players can be reprimanded but what can you say to a legend? The Limerick County Board held a meeting to decide what to do and came up with a genius solution; they officially named MAckey as a 'Spotter' a man who was nominated by the GAA to attend foreign games in order to see if any other GAA men were attending. It seems he wasn't very good at his job and never managed to 'spot' anyone, must have been keeping too much of an eye on the pitch :)
 

NMunsterman

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I'm looking for a bit of clarity on the Ban on "Foreign Games." All the online sources I came across state that this Ban came in in 1901 as Rule 27 but I've come across numerous sources stating that rugby players were banned before this. For example, the Limerick City Gaelic Football team St. Michael's were the best in the County in 1887 but were not allowed to represent Limerick in the All-Ireland championship because they used rugby players and so the team they beat, Limerick Commercials GAA, got the chance to represent the County and actually ended up winning the All-Ireland!

What was the rule that banned these players in 1887? Was Rule 27 just a rephrasing of an earlier rule?


As an aside, the best Limerick story regarding the Ban involves the 1930s hurler, Mick Mackey. Mackey was more than good, he was legendary and apparently had a way of soloing that nobody had ever seen and few could deal with. He was also a big soccer fan and would turn up in the Market's Field to watch soccer matches without any attempt to disguise himself. Ordinary Joe players can be banned, good players can be reprimanded but what can you say to a legend? The Limerick County Board held a meeting to decide what to do and came up with a genius solution; they officially named MAckey as a 'Spotter' a man who was nominated by the GAA to attend foreign games in order to see if any other GAA men were attending. It seems he wasn't very good at his job and never managed to 'spot' anyone, must have been keeping too much of an eye on the pitch :)
Yep. The Ban was very arbitrary and certainly in my playing days in the 70's was almost totally ignored and by the 80's it was effectively gone.

I remember playing rugby, soccer and GAA for various Limerick City clubs during the 70's and we'd invariably end up playing against exactly the same guys in different codes and on different pitches.

If I recall correctly, the Ban was only ever attempted to be used if some bitter kúnt wanted to try to retrospectively overturn a defeat.
 

Roberto Jordan

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Yep. The Ban was very arbitrary and certainly in my playing days in the 70's was almost totally ignored and by the 80's it was effectively gone.

I remember playing rugby, soccer and GAA for various Limerick City clubs during the 70's and we'd invariably end up playing against exactly the same guys in different codes and on different pitches.

If I recall correctly, the Ban was only ever attempted to be used if some bitter kúnt wanted to try to retrospectively overturn a defeat.
Rule 27 was removed in 1971 so not sure what parallel universe you are referencing.

GAA in limerick city ( as opposed to county) was on its knees in the 70's , 80's and 90's. Suburban clubs primarily driven by outsiders be it from county limerick/ clare or farther afield , such as Na piarsigh and Monaleen were in their infancy. Of the remainder it was a poor return for the size of the population. unlike cork city where the GAA has always had comparable hardcore to soccer and much more than rugby, but rather like Galway "city" the GAA in urban limerick survived via a relatively small core loyal population, blow-ins and dilettantes from soccer/ rugby who used the games, mainly football but some hurling , to "winter" over the summer.
As far as I can it is only now, in the past 10/15 years the the growth of the suburbs and the aforementioned clubs that the urban area has begun to carry its weight. Hence you have schools like Ardscoil Ris where, despite producing fine players, GAA was a secondary sport to rugby now being as noted for the small ball as the oval one.
 
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