The Gardaí: The incompetents are innumerable and innumerate.

Munnkeyman

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For example, the Garda’s figure for sexual offences reported in 2003 was 1,986. The revised figure is 1,573, meaning the number of victims who came forward that year is 26 per cent lower than previously stated.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sex-crime-victims-being-sent-away-by-garda-rape-crisis-centre-warns-1.3462637

But for sexual offences the number of victims coming forward had been overestimated by 6 per cent between 2013 and 2016 – and in some years by as much as 26 per cent.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sex-crime-victims-being-sent-away-by-garda-rape-crisis-centre-warns-1.3462637


They are patently unfit for their role. This isn't some advanced level of research... it's basic counting and it is at least understood by some. If this basic role cannot be achieved to within the statistical errors then all of the reported data is effectively useless, if it is used in policy making decisions, and they have comprehensively failed in their obligations under the Garda Síochána Act 2005.

Time to raise the educational standards requirement, or drop their pay to a level commensurate with their skills?
 


onetimeonly

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They are patently unfit for their role. This isn't some advanced level of research... it's basic counting and it is at least understood by some. If this basic role cannot be achieved to within the statistical errors then all of the reported data is effectively useless, if it is used in policy making decisions, and they have comprehensively failed in their obligations under the Garda Síochána Act 2005.

Time to raise the educational standards requirement, or drop their pay to a level commensurate with their skills?
I suspect a full independent audit of the 313 cases would be an interesting thing.
 

Munnkeyman

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I suspect a full independent audit of the 313 cases would be an interesting thing.
We'd only find out what we already know. The Gardaí are actually overstaffed, overpaid and are inventing crime statistics to justify their jobs.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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... If this basic role cannot be achieved to within the statistical errors then all of the reported data is effectively useless, if it is used in policy making decisions, and they have comprehensively failed in their obligations under the Garda Síochána Act 2005 ...
In which case amend the Act.

The AGS are there to enforce Law & Order, not to do number-crunching.

ZOO.

 

former wesleyan

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We'd only find out what we already know. The Gardaí are actually overstaffed, overpaid and are inventing crime statistics to justify their jobs.
Talk to a Guard about the number of times a complaint about domestic violence changes over the course of an investigation.
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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They are patently unfit for their role. This isn't some advanced level of research... it's basic counting and it is at least understood by some. If this basic role cannot be achieved to within the statistical errors then all of the reported data is effectively useless, if it is used in policy making decisions, and they have comprehensively failed in their obligations under the Garda Síochána Act 2005.

Time to raise the educational standards requirement, or drop their pay to a level commensurate with their skills?
Drop the pay. Most of what they do is security guard level stuff anyway.
 

TedHankey

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Talk to a Guard about the number of times a complaint about domestic violence changes over the course of an investigation.
I did already. Apparently it happens on average about 8 times.

3 of those 6 times it changes back again.
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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In which case amend the Act.

The AGS are there to enforce Law & Order, not to do number-crunching.

ZOO.
Ahem.

They are patently unfit for their role. This isn't some advanced level of research... it's basic counting and it is at least understood by some. If this basic role cannot be achieved to within the statistical errors then all of the reported data is effectively useless, if it is used in policy making decisions, and they have comprehensively failed in their obligations under the Garda Síochána Act 2005.

Time to raise the educational standards requirement, or drop their pay to a level commensurate with their skills?
Even a dishwasher needs to know how many dishes they have washed and how many they need to get washed.
 

Sync

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In which case amend the Act.

The AGS are there to enforce Law & Order, not to do number-crunching.
See that's the problem, a reasonable % of the gardai DO need to be number crunchers. You need accountants, computer experts, statisticians etc. Someone in CAB or murder police doesn't need to be the fastest guy around the pitch in Thurles.
 

Munnkeyman

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Talk to a Guard about the number of times a complaint about domestic violence changes over the course of an investigation.
That wouldn't get anyone anywhere. The point is this -

Some offence types were revised because crime-counting rules had not been followed, according to the CSO. When a victim was targeted with the same crime by the same perpetrator, for example, the Garda had recorded each case as a separate crime, but it should have recorded them as only one crime.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sex-crime-victims-being-sent-away-by-garda-rape-crisis-centre-warns-1.3462637
 
D

Deleted member 17573

Police should be employed on policing, nurses on nursing, and neither should be wasting their time on ancillary activities, and let the bureaucrats in the respective Departments take care of the number crunching and report generation - which in most cases nobody pays any heed to anyway.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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In which case amend the Act.

The AGS are there to enforce Law & Order, not to do number-crunching.

ZOO.

And yet every other police force in the developed world, more or less, can and does see data collection and analysis as an integral part of policing.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Drop the pay. Most of what they do is security guard level stuff anyway.
If that were the casethe Gardai on the Fraud Squad and similar, working office hours, 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday, sitting at desks, would be getting more money than the front-line squad risking their lives, working all hours and in all weathers.

Think about it.

This thread has to be Zoo'd.


[video=youtube;iTe9rhLC2XE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTe9rhLC2XE[/video]
 

Munnkeyman

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See that's the problem, a reasonable % of the gardai DO need to be number crunchers. You need accountants, computer experts, statisticians etc. Someone in CAB or murder police doesn't need to be the fastest guy around the pitch in Thurles.
If we limited the role of the Gardaí to what they were actually reasonably capable of achieving we'd be...
 

*EPIC SUCCESS*

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If that were the casethe Gardai on the Fraud Squad and similar, working office hours, 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday, sitting at desks, would be getting more money than the front-line squad risking their lives, working all hours and in all weathers.

Think about it.

This thread has to be Zoo'd.


[video=youtube;iTe9rhLC2XE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTe9rhLC2XE[/video]
You mean like how in my job the accountants and actuaries (AKA the number cruncher's) get paid more than the, well, the security guards or the cleaners?
 

Old Mr Grouser

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And yet every other police force in the developed world, more or less, can and does see data collection and analysis as an integral part of policing.
In the long run you only ever get what you pay for.

Ireland doesn't want to spend money on Law Enforcement.

Given the small amount spent on policing, what aspects of Law Enforcement should the AGS discontinue so as to resource the production of improved statistics?
 

Munnkeyman

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Police should be employed on policing, nurses on nursing, and neither should be wasting their time on ancillary activities, and let the bureaucrats in the respective Departments take care of the number crunching and report generation - which in most cases nobody pays any heed to anyway.
Correct recording of crime and effectively logging it is not an ancillary activity. It is a prime responsibilty that leads to correct investigation of crime. It also allows for identification of areas which need more resources. This is the bread and butter for any organisation.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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You mean like how in my job the accountants and actuaries (AKA the number cruncher's) get paid more than the, well, the security guards or the cleaners?
It's a safe bet that if the Free State were to have been established today the lads painting the pillar-boxes green would have been supported by an army of design-consultants.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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Correct recording of crime and effectively logging it is not an ancillary activity. It is a prime responsibilty that leads to correct investigation of crime.

It also allows for identification of areas which need more resources.

This is the bread and butter for any organisation.
Fine.

Then put a lot more men and money into policing, instead of spending it on Army bands, and sending boats to the Mediterranean.
 

former wesleyan

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That wouldn't get anyone anywhere. The point is this -
Some offence types were revised because crime-counting rules had not been followed, according to the CSO. When a victim was targeted with the same crime by the same perpetrator, for example, the Garda had recorded each case as a separate crime, but it should have recorded them as only one crime.
Which makes absolutely no sense and obviously led to confusion.
 


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