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The Gay Agenda (aka Equality agenda): what's left to achieve?


Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
The 3 most important civil rights matters have been achieved, one was years behind Europe and the other two as a result of European agenda but were still delivered (by the 97 to 2002 government)ahead of other jurisdictions (eg the Brits).

1) Decriminisiation of certain male consensual acts (or decriminisiation homosexuality as idiots with an agenda refer to it).
2) Employment equality legislation.
3) Equal Status Act ie non-discrimination in provision of goods and services.

So what's left?
1) Civil Partnership - this will end discrimination on tax, maintenance, property rights, domestic violence, naturalisiation, next of kin rights and inheritance. It has been coming for a long time.
2) Joint Adoption - a single gay person can already adopt, this would extend it to joint adoption by a couple who who's relationship is recogised by the State ie in a CP.

Both of these require legislation and there is political acceptance for them.

Tricker stuff:
3) Marriage Equality - this will probably require a referendum, the passing of which would be far from certain. And for what? - equality of nomemclature.
4) Repealing the opt-outs from the Employment Equality (and Equal status) which allow discrimination of people on the grounds of sexuality in order to protect the ethos of an instutition. It has never been invoked, but would it be politically acceptable to push to have (openly) gay people in Catholic schools at the moment?
5) Extending a full health screening programme to (non-pregnant) Lesbians which are given to preganant women.


The pinko-liberal loo-la stuff:
6) Including gay couples in school books.
7) A mimimum quota of gay candidates in elections.
8) Bodies or Organs of the State to march in Gay Pride events.
9) Requiring a certain % of the gardai to be gay.
10) Mandatory jail terms for expressing homophobic sentiments.
11) Lifting the ban on blood donations from gay men (although think that confidence in the blood bank to be more important)

Anything else?

[Edit: I will edit this as I go along to include other matters which I have omitted]
 
Last edited:


Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
90
This is a good summary. 1-5 of what's left all seem sensible to me. I think you've dismissed the marriage equality argument in terms of "equality of nomenclature" prematurely. Sometimes nomenclature matters, but there are plenty of threads already on that one. I wouldn't see number 6 as being loo-la stuff. I seem to recall homosexuality being discussed as part of classes on sex and relationships in school and that was several years ago. There are no losers in that - it reinforces the fact that gay people are normal and that there's nothing to fear. If that stops one homophobic assault or gay suicide years down the line it's a good thing.

Quotas are a bad thing. I'd much rather people be employed on merit. But in this country, being someone's son is the only show in town when it comes to politics. Jail sentences for expressing anti-anything sentiments are wrong. But inciting violence is perhaps a separate issue. It's hard to draw the line there, and that's the case for racism and sectarianism too.
 

tmesis2008

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Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
496
3) Marriage Equality - this will probably require a referendum, the passing of which would be far from certain. And for what? - equality of nomemclature.
Equality is important. If "Civil Partnership" is marriage in all but name only then the argument would be: why create "Civil Partnership" when we already have perfectly good institution for the purpose already? Of course, if "civil partnership" is different from marriage then, of course, your argument that it's only about equality of nomenclature is erroneous, as I'm sure you would accept.

4) Repealing the opt-outs from the Employment Equality (and Equal status) which allow discrimination of people on the grounds of sexuality in order to protect the ethos of an instutition. It has never been invoked, but would it be politically acceptable to push to have (openly) gay people in Catholic schools at the moment?
Quite simply the word Catholic and School shouldn't go together. A maths teacher should be judged on their teaching ability, record etc. No person paid, especially one paid by the state, should be discriminated against because of their sexuality. If "Catholic" boards of education don't like that then I would suggest that they get the f*ck out of education (those who support indoctrination have no place in education anyway).

5) Extending a full health screening programme to (non-pregnant) Lesbians which are given to preganant women.
I don't know anything about this? What's going on here?

6) Including gay couples in school books.
There's nothing wrong with gay couples being in school books from time to time.

7) A minimum quota of gay candidates in elections.
Who adovcates this? It seems rather silly?

8) Bodies or Organs of the State to march in Gay Pride events.
Em? Lost me on this one.

9) Requiring a certain % of the gardai to be gay.
Who adovcates this? The sensible position is that a person who is gay shouldn't be discriminated against as a garda.

10) Mandatory jail terms for expressing homophobic sentiments.
I would say that if someone tries to stir up violence against homosexuals, black people, immigrants etc. that they should be prosecuted under hate crime legislation. For example, a priest who expresses the opinion that homosexuality is wrong is exercising free speech, but if he calls on Christians to assault homosexuals verbally or physically he should be prosecuted.

11) Lifting the ban on blood donations from gay men (although think that confidence in the blood bank to be more important)
That's not an unreasonable request.
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
The first two should be acceptable to most.
3 and 4 are "trickier" ie very politicially divisive can fall into the category of having a row for its own sake.

6 to 11 - have been raised from time to time, some are nuts (and made up by me) but some have been raised as real issues from time to time in other jurisdictions. The Blood ban one has its merits but it hardly constitites a denial of a major human/civil right not to be allowed to be *************************ed by a needle and give blood.
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
Here is a tongue in cheek version:
The Homosexual Agenda Revealed! Conservative Christians discover what radical homosexual activists are up to! Ex-gay Ministry: BASH Baptists Are Saving Homosexuals! Christians Proudly Hating Through Tbe Anointing of Jesus

As every Christian knows, there is only one enemy that threatens our entire civilization. And I am, of course, not talking about Satan. I'm talking about those damned homosexuals! Yes, they give otherwise dull hair radiant highlights and our imperfect décor those fabulous flourishes that elude our more predictable heterosexual sensibilities, but at what price? In exchange for a little panache, we allow homosexuals to steal our children and destroy our Christian marriages. And how do they do this? With their secret masterplan -- The Homosexual Agenda!

The Homosexual Agenda
8:00 a.m. Wake up. Wonder where you are.

8:01 a.m. Realize you are lying on 100 percent cotton sheets of at least a 300 count, so don't panic; you're not slumming.


8:02 a.m. Realize you are actually in your own bed for a change. Wake stranger next to you and tell them you are late for work so won't be able to cook breakfast for them. Mutter "sorry" as you help him look for his far-flung underwear. You find out that you tore his boxers while ripping them off him last night, so you "loan" him a pair of boxer-briefs, but not the new ones because you never intend to see him again.
...

9:36 a.m. Close door to office and call best friend and laugh about the guy who spent the night at your condo. Point out something annoying about best friend's boyfriend but quickly add "It doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, just as long as you love him."
...


3:33 p.m. Assume complete control of the U.S., state, and local governments (in addition to other nations' governments); destroy all healthy Christian marriages; recruit all children grades Kindergarten through 12 into your amoral, filthy lifestyle; secure complete control of the media, starting with sitcoms; molest innocent children; give AIDS to as many people as you can; host a pornographic "art" exhibit at your local art museum; and turn people away from Jesus, causing them to burn forever in Hell.


4:10 p.m. Time permitting, bring about the general decline of Western Civilization and look like you are having way too much fun doing it.
 
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
14
The 3 most important civil rights matters have been achieved, one was years behind Europe and the other two as a result of European agenda but were still delivered (by the 97 to 2002 government)ahead of other jurisdictions (eg the Brits).

1) Decriminisiation of certain male consensual acts (or decriminisiation homosexuality as idiots with an agenda refer to it).
2) Employment equality legislation.
3) Equal Status Act ie non-discrimination in provision of goods and services.

So what's left?
1) Civil Partnership - this will end discrimination on tax, maintenance, property rights, domestic violence, naturalisiation, next of kin rights and inheritance. It has been coming for a long time.
2) Joint Adoption - a single gay person can already adopt, this would extend it to joint adoption by a couple who who's relationship is recogised by the State ie in a CP.

Both of these require legislation and there is political acceptance for them.

Tricker stuff:
3) Marriage Equality - this will probably require a referendum, the passing of which would be far from certain. And for what? - equality of nomemclature.
4) Repealing the opt-outs from the Employment Equality (and Equal status) which allow discrimination of people on the grounds of sexuality in order to protect the ethos of an instutition. It has never been invoked, but would it be politically acceptable to push to have (openly) gay people in Catholic schools at the moment?
5) Extending a full health screening programme to (non-pregnant) Lesbians which are given to preganant women.


The pinko-liberal loo-la stuff:
6) Including gay couples in school books.
7) A mimimum quota of gay candidates in elections.
8) Bodies or Organs of the State to march in Gay Pride events.
9) Requiring a certain % of the gardai to be gay.
10) Mandatory jail terms for expressing homophobic sentiments.
11) Lifting the ban on blood donations from gay men (although think that confidence in the blood bank to be more important)

Anything else?

[Edit: I will edit this as I go along to include other matters which I have omitted]
What about the exemption schools have on Equality Legislation if Religious as in 90% of irish schools or the fact gay bashing is still prevalent....need I go on?
 

PODSNR

Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
43
The 3 most important civil rights matters have been achieved, one was years behind Europe and the other two as a result of European agenda but were still delivered (by the 97 to 2002 government)ahead of other jurisdictions (eg the Brits).

1) Decriminisiation of certain male consensual acts (or decriminisiation homosexuality as idiots with an agenda refer to it).
2) Employment equality legislation.
3) Equal Status Act ie non-discrimination in provision of goods and services.

So what's left?
1) Civil Partnership - this will end discrimination on tax, maintenance, property rights, domestic violence, naturalisiation, next of kin rights and inheritance. It has been coming for a long time.
2) Joint Adoption - a single gay person can already adopt, this would extend it to joint adoption by a couple who who's relationship is recogised by the State ie in a CP.

Both of these require legislation and there is political acceptance for them.

Tricker stuff:
3) Marriage Equality - this will probably require a referendum, the passing of which would be far from certain. And for what? - equality of nomemclature.
4) Repealing the opt-outs from the Employment Equality (and Equal status) which allow discrimination of people on the grounds of sexuality in order to protect the ethos of an instutition. It has never been invoked, but would it be politically acceptable to push to have (openly) gay people in Catholic schools at the moment?
5) Extending a full health screening programme to (non-pregnant) Lesbians which are given to preganant women.


The pinko-liberal loo-la stuff:
6) Including gay couples in school books.
7) A mimimum quota of gay candidates in elections.
8) Bodies or Organs of the State to march in Gay Pride events.
9) Requiring a certain % of the gardai to be gay.
10) Mandatory jail terms for expressing homophobic sentiments.
11) Lifting the ban on blood donations from gay men (although think that confidence in the blood bank to be more important)

Anything else?

[Edit: I will edit this as I go along to include other matters which I have omitted]

May I ask what is wrong with having openly gay teachers in school now or at any time?.... I am hoping beyond hope you are not linking child abuse with the gay community....please please tell me I am wrong???
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
May I ask what is wrong with having openly gay teachers in school now or at any time?.... I am hoping beyond hope you are not linking child abuse with the gay community....please please tell me I am wrong???
1. Teachers should leave their personal lives outside of the classroom. Straight or gay. Married or Civilly partnered.
2. I never mentioned (or inferred) any link to child sex abuse.
3. I see little evidence that there is, in fact, a gay community any more than there is a Left-handed community (although lefties do not have left-friendly bars or NGOs maintaining a victim mentality).
4. You are wrong.
 

Wendy

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Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
39
1) Civil Partnership - this will end discrimination on tax, maintenance, property rights, domestic violence, naturalisiation, next of kin rights and inheritance. It has been coming for a long time.
2) Joint Adoption - a single gay person can already adopt, this would extend it to joint adoption by a couple who who's relationship is recogised by the State ie in a CP.

Both of these require legislation and there is political acceptance for them.

Tricker stuff:
3) Marriage Equality - this will probably require a referendum, the passing of which would be far from certain. And for what? - equality of nomemclature.
4) Repealing the opt-outs from the Employment Equality (and Equal status) which allow discrimination of people on the grounds of sexuality in order to protect the ethos of an instutition. It has never been invoked, but would it be politically acceptable to push to have (openly) gay people in Catholic schools at the moment?
5) Extending a full health screening programme to (non-pregnant) Lesbians which are given to preganant women.
What is this? Is it open to non-pregnant, non-lesbian women?
 

Question R24U

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Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
What is this? Is it open to non-pregnant, non-lesbian women?
Sorry I have no source (or any reliable information/understanding of this - being a male homosexual - but I did hear a Lesbian complain about it a few years ago), but the logic is as follows:

Many straight women get pregnant.
Pregnancy provides opprotunity for medical examination/screening.
Fewer gay women get pregnant.
Therefore such Lesbians do not get such opportunities for equal access to health/life saving tests.

Obviously the same logic applies to straight, non-pregnant women.
 

Question R24U

Active member
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
269
What about the exemption schools have on Equality Legislation if Religious as in 90% of irish schools or the fact gay bashing is still prevalent....need I go on?
Please do. But the exemption is mentioned at number 4. How prevalent are gay bashings? I have little evidence of it since declan flynn and one in sligo, thankfully.
 

toughbutfair

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Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
9,778
Forgot about that one. Add that in. The ban is pointless.

Isn't it because AIDS is more prevalent with gay people than straight ones? Although you would hope that the screening with catch it in the tests they do but they are just playing the percentages.

I don't see the problem with gay marriage as it affects nobody else but don't believe in gay adoption as a straight married suitable couple is a better choice as the child will have a good male and a good female role model within the home.
 

toughbutfair

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May 28, 2009
Messages
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what is an openly gay school teacher? I mean teachers don't really talk to pupils about their sex lives. I don't think people would care about a teacher being gay, that said, if a gay male teacher was in some gay rights march dressed up really weird, then I don't think his credibility would stay.

however, a "normal" gay teacher wouldn't really be an issue with most people.


Unfortunately, some people will link being gay with paedophiles because their sexual preferences are outside the vast majority.

Actually, screw it, lesbian teachers should get preference over straight women teachers (most new teachers are women) as they won't be going out on maternity leave :)
 

merle haggard

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Nov 18, 2005
Messages
5,497
compulsory gayness

permitting single gay males to adopt and marry a straight male partner whose been placed in their custody by the state on equality grounds

making kids try gayness to see if they like it or not just in case theyve been artificially conditioned by society not to be gay . In fact the state should assume all kids are gay just to err on the side of caution . And make them do ballet dancing at school .

Gayday bank holiday

In the Navy to replace Amhrain na bhfiann

extend the state boundaries of san francisco as far as mulhuddard
 

McDave

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Jul 10, 2008
Messages
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Jesus QR24U, can't you write shorter posts? It being Saturday night and stuff.

Anyway, you're asking a very interesting question. Some time ago I opened a thread on why Labour couldn't seem to get above 10% (who looks the eejit now?). At any rate, the main reason I asked the thread question was that I thought Labour made a lot of sense on issues of concern to the public at large, but they always managed to make voters hold back on account of an excessive dedication to groovy bleeding heart fringe issues.

Now I'm not suggesting for a second that gay rights, and their getting on with their lives as they wish is such an issue. However, it does get to the point where demands become so marginal that when they are asserted stridently, well people on the fence who just aren't sure will say let's just hold on and not jump in the deep end here.

For me one such issue is gay marriage. People do love each other (i.e. relationship love) in a strong visceral sense. And most like to express such love in a visible ritual of social commitment. In one way that means homosexual couples should be given the same status as heteros. But from another perspective, having babies seems to be a pretty stressful option in today's material world. So if society chooses to give "breeders" (so to speak!) a bit of a leg up (over!!) to encourage reproduction, is it legitimate to express this as what marriage actually is, say in the reproductive interests of wider society? In such a situation, shouldn't gays be content (at least for now) with a civil union arrangement which falls short of marriage, but which gives them a recognised status?

I guess I'm saying stuff stays on the agenda, but consideration and implementation is often better followed through on a pragmatic basis as timing better allows, and as wider understanding allows. Don't forget, there's always more than individual concerns to accommodate.
 

TommyO'Brien

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1. Teachers should leave their personal lives outside of the classroom. Straight or gay. Married or Civilly partnered.
The law and the Church regrettably doesn't allow that for gay people.

If you are a teacher who is gay, even if you never ever mentioned your sexuality in work, and kept it quiet, the school has a legal right to sack you, purely for being gay.

A friend of mine 8 years ago was sacked from a school for being gay even though he was not known by the school as being gay, no child knew he was gay, no teacher knew he was gay, and no-one in his local town in Kerry knew he was gay. He was outed by the fact that one parent in Dublin shopping was walking down South Great George's Street with some friends when he spotted the teacher, on his day off, going into The George. In Ireland under the law, a teacher cannot even risk going to a gay pub hundreds of miles from home for fear of being sacked.
 

McDave

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The law and the Church regrettably doesn't allow that for gay people.

If you are a teacher who is gay, even if you never ever mentioned your sexuality in work, and kept it quiet, the school has a legal right to sack you, purely for being gay.

A friend of mine 8 years ago was sacked from a school for being gay even though he was not known by the school as being gay, no child knew he was gay, no teacher knew he was gay, and no-one in his local town in Kerry knew he was gay. He was outed by the fact that one parent in Dublin shopping was walking down South Great George's Street with some friends when he spotted the teacher, on his day off, going into The George. In Ireland under the law, a teacher cannot even risk going to a gay pub hundreds of miles from home for fear of being sacked.
Sh1te! I've gone into The George. For the cold Becks, understand? (Ever had a warm Becks in Neary's on Chatham St? Or Odessa? I've actually demanded an ice bucket for my next couple of bottles there - and got it!!!) Thank God I'm not a teacher. Is that kind of de facto discrimination still possible today?
 

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