"The Gran Torino Problem" and the decay of US white communities ....

owedtojoy

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Wasn't Kowalski a OAP though, I certainly wouldn't call an 80 something Eastwood "middle aged".
Eastwood generally plays characters younger than his age. But the Walt Kowalski character stands for the white working class psyche - independent, alienated and angry.

You could assume the story took place in the 1990s when Kowalski would be in his 60s, assuming an age of 18 or so when he was in Korea in 1950.
 


Spirit Of Newgrange

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In black communities, there was an upsurge in violence, as fatherless youths looked for alternatives in gangs and drug dealers.
what are the statistics for Fatherless kids in these communities ?
 

GDPR

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Eastwood generally plays characters younger than his age. But the Walt Kowalski character stands for the white working class psyche - independent, alienated and angry.

You could assume the story took place in the 1990s when Kowalski would be in his 60s, assuming an age of 18 or so when he was in Korea in 1950.
When the USA was on the up and up, films were obsessed with the plight of young men and women striving to create their future.
 

owedtojoy

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Its all summarised beautifully here:


[video=youtube;ieOfuEnToTc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieOfuEnToTc&index=10&list=PL4D91BEE3AD105F1C[/video]

Live McMurtry often describes this as a ballad of the North Texas, South Oklahoma border crystal methamphetamine industry.



Come together?
The question is: Why are there not similar communities in the UK, or Germany?

Margaret Thatcher gutted mining communities in the North of England. Yes, there is devastation aplently but not the apocalypse you see in the US.

Did redundancy payments,the NHS and a decent safety net make up the difference?
 

former wesleyan

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Did anyone see Thank you for your service ? There are well over a million vets who aren't very well looked after when they demobilise. Take their wider family and friends and there's a big demograph as they say.
 

Degeneration X

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When the USA was on the up and up, films were obsessed with the plight of young men and women striving to create their future.
There have been an awful lot of futuristic dystopias on the Big Screen lately, most aimed at a YA audience - a sign of a society that has lost faith in it's future?
 

Black Swan

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Excellent OP from one of our best posters. Probably my favourite Eastwood film too.

Choice was Trump or Hilary.

Anyone honestly believe that Hilary gives a sh1t about these people or that anything would have changed under her presidency ?

The point isn't that Trump is such a great liar or impressive figure, its that these people have been getting poorer & poorer for the last 40 years, their traditional sources of jobs have been drying up etc etc

Trump is a roll of the dice & a gigantic fk you to the establishment.
I would like to see a separate oubliette thread, similar to 'The Moderators at my hamster' and 'Handbagging', where all 'whataboutism' posts may be exiled for eternity. :|
 

Degeneration X

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Eastwood generally plays characters younger than his age. But the Walt Kowalski character stands for the white working class psyche - independent, alienated and angry.

You could assume the story took place in the 1990s when Kowalski would be in his 60s, assuming an age of 18 or so when he was in Korea in 1950.
Was it set in the 1990s though? It's been a long time since I've seen it.
 

LooseCannon

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Professor Robert Putnam has been highlighting social fragmentation and isolation since his book Bowling Alone was published in 1990.
Communities have been slowly breaking down, social engagement has diminished across all racial and economic groups. It's just that the wealthier ones can compensate by buying services.
Well worth watching any interviews with him

https://www.c-span.org/video/?159499-1/bowling-alone

And what has happened in the US will happen in Ireland with a short time lag.
 

owedtojoy

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what are the statistics for Fatherless kids in these communities ?


In 2008, 40.6 percent of births in the U.S. occurred out of wedlock.
Among white non- Hispanics, 28.6 percent of births were outside marriage.
Among Hispanics, the figure was 52.5 percent, while among blacks it was 72.3 percent.
Source: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 2008 Births Preliminary data.

I could not find more recent statistics, but I think the rates are declining at a modest rate.
 

stopdoingstuff

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When did women begin spontaneously procreating?

I must have missed that.
Usually a few glasses of wine and some Leonard Cohen does the trick ( or Dutch Gold and Bruno Mars if on the DCU campus).
 

owedtojoy

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Professor Robert Putnam has been highlighting social fragmentation and isolation since his book Bowling Alone was published in 1990.
Communities have been slowly breaking down, social engagement has diminished across all racial and economic groups. It's just that the wealthier ones can compensate by buying services.
Well worth watching any interviews with him

https://www.c-span.org/video/?159499-1/bowling-alone

And what has happened in the US will happen in Ireland with a short time lag.
I think one of the points in the OP is that similar trends are NOT visible in Europe, or only in small pockets.

I gave the example above of mining communities in the North of England, which have proved far more resilient than Detroit communities ravaged by job loss.
 

TomBreen

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Should homicide rates of the races be adjusted into these graphs, also access to medicine, which I'm guessing whites have better health care and can reach old age in a greater proportion? I'm assuming whites have a greater chance of reaching old age.
 

owedtojoy

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When did women begin spontaneously procreating?

I must have missed that.
Amazing what can be done with a turkey baster and a sperm donor.

It may not be spontaneous, but a feed of drink can help.
 

owedtojoy

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Should homicide rates of the races be adjusted into these graphs, also access to medicine, which I'm guessing whites have better health care and can reach old age in a greater proportion? I'm assuming whites have a greater chance of reaching old age.
Whites overall, yes.

Blue-collar middle-aged white males, or less well-educated & middle aged white males, no, according to the statistics.

They have a better chance than black males in the same demographic, but worse than blacks overall.

Their communities are being ravaged by crystal meth, opiate addiction, gun suicides and chronic ailments like diabetes.
 

owedtojoy

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The Opiate Addiction problem is part of the pattern.

And it is one problem that could well come to Ireland and Europe, if doctors continue to be "encouraged" to push opiate-based pain-killers onto people who do not really need them.

Having caused a antibiotic resistance problem, the medical profession, big pharma and the public could well lead to the same denouement here.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/23/16909984/trump-opioid-epidemic-2017
 

Barroso

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A lot of effort put into that OP.

....

t I think they tend to underplay one big cause: a decline in the economic value of lower class men compared to women. Bluntly put, they’re no longer worth the trouble of marrying. They often earn less than women and their prospects are highly uncertain. Murray and Co. like to blame male moral fecklessness and a persistent fondness for video games and other adolescent pursuits etc. as the problem. That may play a role but female choice matters too here. Women are opting to stay single rather than get hitched up to a poor and unreliable provider. This is not something women will shout from the rooftops because it reveals an uncomfortable, transactional aspect to even long-term romantic relationships.
Excellent points, Ardillaun.

And a corollary of this is that those who don't marry for this reason are unlikely to have children.

Thus population decline.

When I returned to Ireland and the Irish workforce after living abroad for some years, one of the things that struck me was the very large number of childless colleagues.

And this was not due only to the women choosing to be single, but also to couples choosing not to have children.
And those who do, have small families.

Again, this leads to population decline, and is a factor in subsequent immigration.

In the US, given that its economic growth has always been driven by immigration, this means non-white immigration, as much of the main source of white immigration - Europe - is now suffering the same fate; and moreover, the financial rewards of emigrating to the US are in a great many cases not worth the trouble involved for white Europeans who would could do well there.

As a result, immigration to the US now comes mainly from, SHOCK HORROR non-white regions such as Latin America and Asia.

Over several generations, this is likely to lead to population substitution.

And as a couple of posters have already mentioned, the Native Americans will be horrified by this ..... or not.
 


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