The greatest Irishman of them all...



Eirenua

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For me it has to be Gen Tom Barry who with along with his Flying Coloumns kicked the sh1t out of the Tans
 

Leftfemme22

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For me, its my Fiánce :oops: :lol: :oops:
 

Riadach

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To achieve what he achieved by exclusively peaceful means itself sets him apart. Although lets not forget there was always a threat of violence behind the monster meetings.
 

Leftfemme22

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Riadach said:
To achieve what he achieved by exclusively peaceful means itself sets him apart. Although lets not forget there was always a threat of violence behind the monster meetings.
I take your talking about Tom Barry and not my fiánce :)
 

Riadach

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No O'Connell actually :)
 

Rebelman

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Leftfemme22 said:
Riadach said:
To achieve what he achieved by exclusively peaceful means itself sets him apart. Although lets not forget there was always a threat of violence behind the monster meetings.
I take your talking about Tom Barry and not my fiánce :)
he is talking about daniel o connell
 

Leftfemme22

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Riadach said:
No O'Connell actually :)
Phew... the poor boy has enough on his plate :lol:
 

Leopold Bloom

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Riadach said:
To achieve what he achieved by exclusively peaceful means itself sets him apart. Although lets not forget there was always a threat of violence behind the monster meetings.
I think the "potential" for violence behind the mass rallies (people power well over 100 years before Ghandi discovered its efficacy) rather than the "threat of violence" is a better way of phrasing it. Indeed, I think it is further testament to O'Connell's greatness that these huge rallies never did become marred by violence.

O'Connell has long been one of my great heroes and I agree with the sentiment that he may well be the greatest Irishman (in terms of what he achieved, and the manner in which he achieved it) of all time.
 

Riadach

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He did, however, articulate such a threat or at least allude to it on many occasions.
 

rockofcashel

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what did he achieve ?

Catholic Emancipation ? What did that mean for the majority of Catholics

Catholic Franchise ? More or less wiped out within a couple of years

An Irish Parliament ? Never came close to it

Mass action ? Funked it at Clontarf and never held the same power again

O' Connell has been lionised in Irish history by those who fear physical force Republicanism.. the only method which has ever brought enough pressure to bear on the British Government to sit down and seriously talk politics to Irishmen and women.

I'll be castigated for writing that, but in essence, its the truth
 

Riadach

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He didn't achieve catholic franchise, in fact catholic franchise was reduced by catholic emancipation to £10 freeholders. What he achieved was possibly more of a middle class victory, the jobs opened up were in the legal and political spheres. However it was still an important step in the advancement of catholic rights.
 

Leopold Bloom

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rockofcashel said:
O' Connell has been lionised in Irish history by those who fear physical force Republicanism.. the only method which has ever brought enough pressure to bear on the British Government to sit down and seriously talk politics to Irishmen and women.
But, ROC, I thought your party had recently completely renounced physical force (i.e. violence) as a means of achieving its political objectives. Are you now telling us that this is not the case?

And the British government of the day did take O'Connell very seriously indeed.
 

rockofcashel

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Leopold Bloom said:
rockofcashel said:
O' Connell has been lionised in Irish history by those who fear physical force Republicanism.. the only method which has ever brought enough pressure to bear on the British Government to sit down and seriously talk politics to Irishmen and women.
But, ROC, I thought your party had recently completely renounced physical force (i.e. violence) as a means of achieving its political objectives. Are you now telling us that this is not the case?

And the British government of the day did take O'Connell very seriously indeed.
why have you brought this back to SF ?

Do you not understand that I have opinions separate to my political party membership ?

This has nothing to do with SF.. that point was only one of four I made in my post, yet you immediately jumped on it

Go look at Riadach's post.. what did O Connell do about the change from a franchise for a forty shilling freeholder, to a £10 freeholder ?
 

civic_critic

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Riadach said:
To achieve what he achieved by exclusively peaceful means itself sets him apart. Although lets not forget there was always a threat of violence behind the monster meetings.
What's with the peace fetish? You have a right to drive out the invader, by any means necessary and immediately. This fetish for non-violence peddled by the irish establishment and superficially parroted by the people at large is little more than a form of self-apology. You have the right to be dangerous, it's part of the foundation of your liberty, of all peoples' liberty.
 

Rebelman

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nobody could argue he was one of the greatest orators in Irish history, some of his contributions in parliment are recognised as being among the all time greats.
 

rockyracoon

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Never understood the heirarchy of liberators. Any man or woman who furthered the cause of the down trodden (couldn't think of a better term) deserves credit. There are many men and women who have done much that never received nor wanted to receive recognition. O'Connell was, I suppose in modern parlance, a person who raised the consciousness of the underclass. He did what he could. It was up to others who followed him to continue the struggle.
 

Riadach

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civic_critic said:
Riadach said:
To achieve what he achieved by exclusively peaceful means itself sets him apart. Although lets not forget there was always a threat of violence behind the monster meetings.
What's with the peace fetish? You have a right to drive out the invader, by any means necessary and immediately. This fetish for non-violence peddled by the irish establishment and superficially parroted by the people at large is little more than a form of self-apology. You have the right to be dangerous, it's part of the foundation of your liberty, of all peoples' liberty.
Maybe some of us are inherently uncomfortable with the taking of life full stop.
 


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