The Greeks shall inherit the earth. Or is it the IMF?

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A quite succinct analysis, not just as regards the treatment of Greece but also as it relates to our own treatment at the hands of the Troika et al.

Michael Hudson: The basic principle is indeed the same. If a creditor makes a loan to a country or a home buyer knowing that there’s no way in which the person can pay, who should bear the responsibility for this? Should the bad lender or irresponsible bondholder have to pay, or should the Greek people have to pay?

IMF economists said that Greece can’t pay, and under the IMF rules it is not allowed to make loans to countries that have no chance of repaying in the foreseeable future. The then-head of the IMF, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, introduced a new rule – the “systemic problem” rule. It said that if Greece doesn’t repay, this will cause problems for the economic system – defined as the international bankers, bondholder’s and European Union budget – then the IMF can make the loan.

This poses a question on international law. If the problem is systemic, not Greek, and if it’s the system that’s being rescued, why should Greek workers have to dismantle their economy? Why should Greece, a sovereign nation, have to dismantle its economy in order to rescue a banking system that is guaranteed to continue to cause more and more austerity, guaranteed to turn the Eurozone into a dead zone? Why should Greece be blamed for the bad malstructured European rules? That’s the moral principle that’s at stake in all this.

Sharmini Peries: Michael, The New York Times has recently published an article titled, “IMF torn over whether to bail out Greece again.” It essentially describes the IMF as being sympathetic towards Greece in spite of the fact as you say, they knew that Greece could not pay back this money when it first lent it the money with the Troika. Right now, the IMF sounds rational and thoughtful about the Greek people. Is this the case?

Michael Hudson
: Well, Yanis Varoufakis, the finance minister under Syriza, said that every time he talked to the IMF’s Christine Lagarde and others two years ago, they were sympathetic. They said, “I am terribly sorry we have to destroy your economy. I feel your pain, but we are indeed going to destroy your economy. There is nothing we can do about it. We are only following orders.” The orders were coming from Wall Street, from the Eurozone and from investors who bought or guaranteed Greek bonds.

Being sympathetic, feeling their pain doesn’t really mean anything if the IMF says, “Oh, we know it is a disaster. We are going to screw you anyway, because that’s our job. We are the IMF, after all. Our job is to impose austerity. Our job is to shrink economies, not help them grow. Our constituency is the bondholders and banks.”

Somebody’s going to suffer. Should it the wealthy billionaires and the bankers, or should it be the Greek workers? Well, the Greek workers are not the IMF’s constituency. It says: “We feel your pain, but we’d rather you suffer than our constituency.”

So what you read is simply the usual New York Times hypocrisy, pretending that the IMF really is feeling bad about what it’s doing. If its economists felt bad, they would have done what the IMF European staff did a few years ago after the first loan: They resigned in protest. They would write about it and go public and say, “This system is corrupt. The IMF is working for the bankers against the interest of its member countries.” If they don’t do that, they are not really sympathetic at all. They are just hypocritical.

Sharmini Peries: Right. I know that the European Commission is holding up Greece as an example in order to discourage other member nations in the periphery of Europe so that they won’t default on their loans. Explain to me why Greece is being held up as an example.

Michael Hudson: It’s being made an example for the same reason the United States went into Libya and bombed Syria: It’s to show that we can destroy you if you don’t do what we say. If Spain or Italy or Portugal seeks not to pay its debts, it will meet the same fate. Its banking system will be destroyed, and its currency system will be destroyed.

The basic principle at work is that finance is the new form of warfare. You can now destroy a country’s economy not merely by invading it. You don’t even have to bomb it, as you’ve done in the Near East. All you have to do is withdraw all credit to the banking system, isolate it economically from making payments to foreign countries so that you essentially put sanctions on it. You’ll treat Greece like they’ve treated Iran or other countries.

“We have life and death power over you.” The demonstration effect is not only to stop Greece, but to stop countries from doing what Marine Le Pen is trying to do in France: withdraw from the Eurozone.
Anything sound somewhat familiar??

Full article here:
IMF to Greece: Sorry We’ll Destroy You
 


HarshBuzz

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So by this logic, Greece should not have gotten its multiple bailouts and should have been allowed to collapse economically. It should also have been kicked out of the Eurozone and probably the EU too.

Harsh but I can see the logic. Fair enough.
 

Watcher2

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So by this logic, Greece should not have gotten its multiple bailouts and should have been allowed to collapse economically. It should also have been kicked out of the Eurozone and probably the EU too.

Harsh but I can see the logic. Fair enough.
It would appear it should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place. Weren't their books cooked, aided and abetted and advised by a Mr Mario Draghi if the reports are to be believed?

And yes, it looks like it should have been allowed fail. Has the strategy worked or just can kicking? I know we have not heard much about Greece in a while but is that only because they are merely burning through the bailout cash and not reached the point where the next one is needed or have they fixed their economy yet?
 

gerhard dengler

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A quite succinct analysis, not just as regards the treatment of Greece but also as it relates to our own treatment at the hands of the Troika et al.



Anything sound somewhat familiar??

Full article here:
IMF to Greece: Sorry We’ll Destroy You
(International) Finance is the new form of warfare, carries a lot of credence.

With the erosion of power of nation-states, non-national entities start to dictate more and more the internal affairs of country's.
The only way to start to reverse this non-national interference is to call the bluff of these non-national entities. That takes courage and fortitude.

The Greeks would do well to try to follow the lead of countries such as Iceland.
 
D

Deleted member 42179

So by this logic, Greece should not have gotten its multiple bailouts and should have been allowed to collapse economically. It should also have been kicked out of the Eurozone and probably the EU too.

Harsh but I can see the logic. Fair enough.
No surprises to see you here defending financial terrorism as usual ársebuzz :D

The only people bailed out were bank gamblers. Not the greek people.
Their real assets are now being robbed.

It's what's referred to as a "leveraged buyout". All with the approval of their supposed "friends" in the EU.

Greek ideas were part of the foundations of civilisation as we know it.
And they fought the Nazis tooth and nail during WWII.
This is how they are treated ... ironically at the hands of the Germans.
Something is clearly rotten about all this.
 
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Kommunist

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Illegal debt imposed on countries to manufacture credit and income.

Refusal to pay the debt and reinstatement of the drachma is the only path.
 
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A quite succinct analysis, not just as regards the treatment of Greece but also as it relates to our own treatment at the hands of the Troika et al.



Anything sound somewhat familiar??

Full article here:
The IMF is part of the UN and contrary to myth represents sovereign states and their tax paeyrs and not bankers/Rothschild/International Finance/ Jews/ Free masons or whatever.
 
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It would appear it should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place. Weren't their books cooked, aided and abetted and advised by a Mr Mario Draghi if the reports are to be believed?

And yes, it looks like it should have been allowed fail. Has the strategy worked or just can kicking? I know we have not heard much about Greece in a while but is that only because they are merely burning through the bailout cash and not reached the point where the next one is needed or have they fixed their economy yet?
The Greek economy was built on corruption, cronyism, nepotism and tax avoidnace. They got themselves into the mess they are in and there is no one to blame but themselves.
 

gleeful

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The alternatives to bailing out Greece is to either a) let it collapse or b) nationalise it and rule it directly. a) is less unacceptable than b) but would lead to far more people dying.

Option c) bailout, it the least worst option.
 

Erudite Caveman

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The alternatives to bailing out Greece is to either a) let it collapse or b) nationalise it and rule it directly. a) is less unacceptable than b) but would lead to far more people dying.

Option c) bailout, it the least worst option.
Or as it is usually described by the level headed denizens of Bolitix.ie....

c) Nazi's!
 

Watcher2

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The Greek economy was built on corruption, cronyism, nepotism and tax avoidnace. They got themselves into the mess they are in and there is no one to blame but themselves.
I'm not saying there is but the EU/Troika are not helping them.
 

HarshBuzz

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I'm not saying there is but the EU/Troika are not helping them.
so if Greece goes from being a corruption-ridden basket case (as it has been for decades) to a State that can actually function properly and provide the fairest deal possible for its citizens under the bailout reform programme....is that not 'help'?
 

blokesbloke

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Greece and indeed Ireland are members of the European Union.

As such they are full and equal partners in a mighty co-operative union which looks after its members.

Their partner EU countries will never allow them to suffer or be punished. That is reserved for nations who leave their loving embrace.

Therefore I have no concerns about Greece, Ireland or any other EU member at all, on any subject.

I hope this reassures you all.

Thead can be closed, unless it's kept open to discuss the perils of Brexit, a subject which is strangely almost absent on P.ie...
 

gerhard dengler

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so if Greece goes from being a corruption-ridden basket case (as it has been for decades) to a State that can actually function properly and provide the fairest deal possible for its citizens under the bailout reform programme....is that not 'help'?
Was that the justification - by the EU or by the Greeks, that Greece was a corruption-ridden basket case - for accession to the European Union?

If so, it would make one wonder why the EU would wish to admit entry to such an entity?
 

HarshBuzz

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Was that the justification - by the EU or by the Greeks, that Greece was a corruption-ridden basket case - for accession to the European Union?

If so, it would make one wonder why the EU would wish to admit entry to such an entity?
they cooked the books - hardly a surprise?
 

dizillusioned

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Greece and indeed Ireland are members of the European Union.

As such they are full and equal partners in a mighty co-operative union which looks after its members.

Their partner EU countries will never allow them to suffer or be punished. That is reserved for nations who leave their loving embrace.

Therefore I have no concerns about Greece, Ireland or any other EU member at all, on any subject.

I hope this reassures you all.

Thead can be closed, unless it's kept open to discuss the perils of Brexit, a subject which is strangely almost absent on P.ie...
Which day of the week is it BB? It depends on what and whom has such a notion.... IMHO the EU is not fit for purpose, it has lost it's way from a fantastic idea to a gravy train.
 

eoghanacht

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So by this logic, Greece should not have gotten its multiple bailouts and should have been allowed to collapse economically. It should also have been kicked out of the Eurozone and probably the EU too.

Harsh but I can see the logic. Fair enough.
The vampire squid (who profited from the crash) who "cooked" Greece's books should face sanctions and have their assets ceased?
 


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