The Greeks shall inherit the earth. Or is it the IMF?

  • Thread starter Deleted member 42179
  • Start date

TedHankey

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2014
Messages
1,056
Greece and indeed Ireland are members of the European Union.

As such they are full and equal partners in a mighty co-operative union which looks after its members.

Their partner EU countries will never allow them to suffer or be punished. That is reserved for nations who leave their loving embrace.

Therefore I have no concerns about Greece, Ireland or any other EU member at all, on any subject.

I hope this reassures you all.

Thead can be closed, unless it's kept open to discuss the perils of Brexit, a subject which is strangely almost absent on P.ie...
They told me that BB always has his tongue in some or other cheek but I didn't believe.
 


eoghanacht

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
32,410
No surprises to see you here defending financial terrorism as usual ársebuzz :D

The only people bailed out were bank gamblers. Not the greek people.
Their real assets are now being robbed.

It's what's referred to as a "leveraged buyout". All with the approval of their supposed "friends" in the EU.

Greeks ideas were part of the foundations of civilisation as we know it.
And they fought the Nazis tooth and nail during WWII.
This is how they are treated ... ironically at the hands of the Germans.
Something is clearly rotten about all this.
Especially when you consider the Germans failed to pay their repatriation to Greece after the war.
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
And not the EU due diligence function?
they must share some of the blame

But the fact that Greek civil society is inherently corrupt and their politicians are the worst sort of populist chancers - that's not the EU's fault
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
they must share some of the blame

But the fact that Greek civil society is inherently corrupt and their politicians are the worst sort of populist chancers - that's not the EU's fault
In a nut-shell, Hudsons analysis (which he applies globally and not just to Greece) is that our economic system is now entirely geared towards finance profit, and not the productive sector, which is essentially a "scorched earth" policy. It runs on generating debt. There is actually a great deal to be said for that.

The problem is his solution is to re-industrialise - a kind of "back to the future". How you could do that in Greece, specifically, is well, he doesnt tell you, does he?

In other words all he could offer for Greece in particular was debt-forgiveness. That in itself wouldnt solve any of Greeces long-term problems, because these are structural and societal, unless the entire world adopted Hudsons programme.

Man thinks big, I'll give him that.
 

Watcher2

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
34,480
so if Greece goes from being a corruption-ridden basket case (as it has been for decades) to a State that can actually function properly and provide the fairest deal possible for its citizens under the bailout reform programme....is that not 'help'?
Has it?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
The only real alternative is Greece now is the KKE. However though you have more people of quality per capita there than you do in Western Europe I'm not sure there is enough to carry out the revolution that needs to take place plus in Greece's case an actual people's revolution besides having to fight the NATO puppet State would also have to fight the mass of lumpen and degenerated culturally middle class Anarchist hooligans as well as the macho biker types of Golden Dawn though I suspect that when things came to the crunch a lot of the Golden Dawn would come over to the ranks of the KKE and PAME.
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
So by this logic, Greece should not have gotten its multiple bailouts and should have been allowed to collapse economically. It should also have been kicked out of the Eurozone and probably the EU too.

Harsh but I can see the logic. Fair enough.
You mean like the US should have let happen to Germany after WWII?

After all if people don't suffer for their mistakes they'll just repeat them. Isn't that your rationale?
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
they must share some of the blame

But the fact that Greek civil society is inherently corrupt and their politicians are the worst sort of populist chancers - that's not the EU's fault
Tell us when it was after joining the Euro and after being lent all that money that Greek civil society suddenly became 'inherently corrupt'.
 

paulp

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
7,252
Why didn't Yanis Varoufakis just tell them to leave?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
Nope - and that is actually the fault of the Greek govt. It wants to avoid shrinking the state because it relies on civil servants as its main bloc of voters so it loads taxes on business and the middle class plus the EU that set the govt an unsustainable target of a 3.5% budget surplus. The latter painted an unrealistically rosy picture of Greece's economy to avoid having to admit it was in fact a basket case, so they didnt press Greece on reforms, but instead pretended it was basically OK as it was with a few tweaks.

The IMF wanted to reduce this figure to 1.5%, re-negotiate the debt and ensure a programme of reforms that would make Greece more competitive.

The govt sided with the EU, even though it knows it means more austerity.

Hence the messy outcome.
 

Watcher2

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Messages
34,480
Nope - and that is actually the fault of the Greek govt. It wants to avoid shrinking the state because it relies on civil servants as its main bloc of voters so it loads taxes on business and the middle class plus the EU that set the govt an unsustainable target of a 3.5% budget surplus. The latter painted an unrealistically rosy picture of Greece's economy to avoid having to admit it was in fact a basket case, so they didnt press Greece on reforms, but instead pretended it was basically OK as it was with a few tweaks.

The IMF wanted to reduce this figure to 1.5%, re-negotiate the debt and ensure a programme of reforms that would make Greece more competitive.

The govt sided with the EU, even though it knows it means more austerity.

Hence the messy outcome.
Thanks, but mine was a rhetorical question designed to illicit a factual answer from the poster to whom it was posed.
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
You mean like the US should have let happen to Germany after WWII?

After all if people don't suffer for their mistakes they'll just repeat them. Isn't that your rationale?
sorry, did the EU exist in 1945? :confused: (way to mix up completely different situations)

The US weren't being completely altruistic with the Marshall Plan. It was necessary to rebuild Western Europe (lest Stalin just take it all from the ashes, which was a very real threat at the time). A reconstituted German economy was the central plank in that policy.

Also - on the 'not suffering' part. Losing 8 million dead, considerable chunks of territory and having your country divided and partitioned....does that not constitute 'suffering'?

Or would you have preferred the Morgenthau Plan?
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
Why didn't Yanis Varoufakis just tell them to leave?
because Yannis, like Donal Trump or Paul Murphy, was a populist blowhard?
 

HarshBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
11,815
Tell us when it was after joining the Euro and after being lent all that money that Greek civil society suddenly became 'inherently corrupt'.
it was well before the EU or indeed the Euro was thought of

You can blame the Ottoman Empire, just like we can blame the Brits for our lax attitude to paying taxes and generally fecking over the State if we get half a chance.

Sheesh. I feel like a history professor. Which, compared to you, I guess I am.
 
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
46
because Yannis, like Donal Trump or Paul Murphy, was a populist blowhard?
Yep. He was a Communist and like all commies he ran out of other people's money. Writing pieces for Marxists publications and engaging with other people in a University setting is not the smae a srunning a country. As Yannis found out.
 

blokesbloke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
22,697
Apparently the EU was very shocked when they "found out" that Greece had been less than 100% honest with its figures when it applied to join the euro.

Having trusted Greece implicitly, they had not the slightest inkling that the figures were anything other than 100% accurate and so welcomed Greece into the Eurozone family.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top