The Greeks shall inherit the earth. Or is it the IMF?

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GDPR

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it was well before the EU or indeed the Euro was thought of

You can blame the Ottoman Empire, just like we can blame the Brits for our lax attitude to paying taxes and generally fecking over the State if we get half a chance.

Sheesh. I feel like a history professor. Which, compared to you, I guess I am.
Yup, its a problem that has been studied for years by macroeconomists and development theorists - why is Greece's culture of corruption so engrained? It does go back to the Ottomans who ruled through a combination of stifling bureacracy, neglect and institutionalised bribery. Evading taxes became an heroic act against an occupier. Greeks also developed a culture of who-you-know, where everything, even a rubbish collectors job, depended on having a "godfather" or sponsor to help you so they could both exploit the Ottoman system and also avoid it, if necessary. That didnt change after independence.

The problem is to overcome that you would need an almost unimaginable transformation - a new state, with incorruptible public servants and a change in mind-set, which would make individuals completely over-haul their personal behaviour and attitude to authority. Syrizia is still looking after its main client group - the civil service - so Greeks think, hey, whats in it for me?
 


HarshBuzz

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Yup, its a problem that has been studied for years by macroeconomists and development theorists - why is Greece's culture of corruption so engrained? It does go back to the Ottomans who ruled through a combination of stifling bureacracy, neglect and institutionalised bribery. Evading taxes became an heroic act against an occupier. Greeks also developed a culture of who-you-know, where everything, even a rubbish collectors job, depended on having a "godfather" or sponsor to help you so they could both exploit the Ottoman system and also avoid it, if necessary. That didnt change after independence.

The problem is to overcome that you would need an almost unimaginable transformation - a new state, with incorruptible public servants and a change in mind-set, which would make individuals completely over-haul their personal behaviour and attitude to authority. Syrizia is still looking after its main client group - the civil service - so Greeks think, hey, whats in it for me?
well, as in any process of transformation, culture is the hardest thing of all to change
 

GDPR

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well, as in any process of transformation, culture is the hardest thing of all to change
People and policies CAN change but Greece has been stuck in a feedback loop of corruption and stagnation for so long - its entire modern history - its hard to see where this revolution in public morality would come from.
 

Watcher2

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hadn't noticed that one, sorry

I guess you should read the latest Troika report to find out
What a load of c0ck and spin:

"Despite the policy constraints imposed by its membership in the currency union, Greece has made significant progress in unwinding its macroeconomic imbalances. But extensive fiscal consolidation and internal devaluation have come with substantial costs for society, which contributed to delays in reform implementation and to policy reversals since the last Article IV Consultation, culminating in a renewed crisis of confidence in 2015. Since then, the situation has stabilized, and growth is estimated to have resumed modestly in 2016. Notwithstanding the substantial progress achieved by Greece, it still faces fundamental challenges: (i) a vulnerable structure of the public finances; (ii) significant tax evasion and an ineffective tax administration; (iii) impaired bank and private sector balance sheets; and (iv) pervasive structural obstacles to investment and growth. Moreover, its public debt remains highly unsustainable, despite generous official relief already provided by its European partners. Addressing these remaining challenges and restoring debt sustainability are essential to creating a vibrant and dynamic private sector capable of generating sustainable and equitable growth and employment."

Reading between all the lines, Greece is still fvcked:

https://www.ft.com/content/bcd3657a-f84f-11e6-bd4e-68d53499ed71

https://www.ft.com/content/e77f3c0c-0abc-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b
 

Sister Mercedes

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it was well before the EU or indeed the Euro was thought of

You can blame the Ottoman Empire, just like we can blame the Brits for our lax attitude to paying taxes and generally fecking over the State if we get half a chance.

Sheesh. I feel like a history professor. Which, compared to you, I guess I am.
Then anyone lending money to such people at low interest rates would be a fool wouldnt they? And such a fool should have no expectation of ever getting their money back. If you bail out such fools they'll just keep on repeating their bad lending decisions.
 

Sister Mercedes

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So if there's a house on fire on the street you have to leave it to burn. Otherwise the people will never learn not to leave a chip pan unattended. Never mind that the fire will spread and burn down every house on the street. The important thing is that they learn their lesson.
 

Watcher2

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So if there's a house on fire on the street you have to leave it to burn. Otherwise the people will never learn not to leave a chip pan unattended. Never mind that the fire will spread and burn down every house on the street. The important thing is that they learn their lesson.
Of course. Because they are the same.

Silly, silly post.
 

HarshBuzz

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HarshBuzz

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What a load of c0ck and spin:

"Despite the policy constraints imposed by its membership in the currency union, Greece has made significant progress in unwinding its macroeconomic imbalances. But extensive fiscal consolidation and internal devaluation have come with substantial costs for society, which contributed to delays in reform implementation and to policy reversals since the last Article IV Consultation, culminating in a renewed crisis of confidence in 2015. Since then, the situation has stabilized, and growth is estimated to have resumed modestly in 2016. Notwithstanding the substantial progress achieved by Greece, it still faces fundamental challenges: (i) a vulnerable structure of the public finances; (ii) significant tax evasion and an ineffective tax administration; (iii) impaired bank and private sector balance sheets; and (iv) pervasive structural obstacles to investment and growth. Moreover, its public debt remains highly unsustainable, despite generous official relief already provided by its European partners. Addressing these remaining challenges and restoring debt sustainability are essential to creating a vibrant and dynamic private sector capable of generating sustainable and equitable growth and employment."

Reading between all the lines, Greece is still fvcked:

https://www.ft.com/content/bcd3657a-f84f-11e6-bd4e-68d53499ed71

https://www.ft.com/content/e77f3c0c-0abc-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b
It would read that as "they still have a hell of a long way to go".

Where's the spin?
 

Jack O Neill

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The IMF is part of the UN and contrary to myth represents sovereign states and their tax paeyrs and not bankers/Rothschild/International Finance/ Jews/ Free masons or whatever.
And Donald Trump is an intellectual ? Where were these people before PIE
 

cytex

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So by this logic, Greece should not have gotten its multiple bailouts and should have been allowed to collapse economically. It should also have been kicked out of the Eurozone and probably the EU too.

Harsh but I can see the logic. Fair enough.

Maybe you should read up what happened in Greece. The people voted no to the "Bailout" so the nice guys in Europe decided to cut off their money supply send them over the edge and waited until The Greeks "saw reason" .. or in english the Eu made the problem 100 times worse until the Greeks agreed to bailout the banking system .

Same thing happened here except our Feckless idiots folded much quicker than the Greeks .

There was no "Bailout" to any country just a "legitimate businessman's social club" giving a "Loan" at a "reasonable" rate ..........
 
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So if there's a house on fire on the street you have to leave it to burn. Otherwise the people will never learn not to leave a chip pan unattended. Never mind that the fire will spread and burn down every house on the street. The important thing is that they learn their lesson.
No you put out the fire and hand them the bill for their own carelessness.
 

Sister Mercedes

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Lols at the Irish posters who criticize the Greeks for tax evasion when Ireland is the world leader in enabling global corporate tax evasion.
 
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Lols at the Irish posters who criticize the Greeks for tax evasion when Ireland is the world leader in enabling global corporate tax evasion.
You don't understand what tax evasion means.
 

devoutcapitalist

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The only real alternative is Greece now is the KKE. However though you have more people of quality per capita there than you do in Western Europe I'm not sure there is enough to carry out the revolution that needs to take place plus in Greece's case an actual people's revolution besides having to fight the NATO puppet State would also have to fight the mass of lumpen and degenerated culturally middle class Anarchist hooligans as well as the macho biker types of Golden Dawn though I suspect that when things came to the crunch a lot of the Golden Dawn would come over to the ranks of the KKE and PAME.
Ah yes the Greek Communists need to come to power, Syriza aren't left wing enough for you. Clearly your unaware that Communism has failed wherever It has been tried.
 


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